460 EFI

Discussion in 'General Automotive Questions' started by ForistellFord, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. ForistellFord

    ForistellFord In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    OK, I know there will be ridicule and cracking wise, which I'm fine with. But a smattering of actual opinion would be cool too.

    Everyone knows Bubba, my 1996 E350 1-ton conversion van. First off, it runs great and hasn't given me a whiff of problems other than normal W&T. It is, after all, a 460.

    Down the line, I really want to get a stepped up engine in this puppy. Lose the low compression emissions garbage build is has now, and really get the old boy jumping. While in the 'dream' stage at the moment, I want to hear some seasoned vet's thoughts on making him a real monster. MPG is not important. As it is now, the suffocated beast already only gets between 8-12 depending on whether I'm towing, so it really can't get all that worse.

    Some (maybe only) requirements-

    EFI.

    Has to be compliant with the computer in it already. I don't want an electrical nightmare. (I'm thinking if I nuke the emissions crap I will have PCM problems though)

    Swap and drop. In it goes, reconnect the existing connectors to keep it happy, and off I go.

    Rear end is the Dana with the 4.10's. I don't really want to swap that so I probably need a little more rev tolerance. I don't want to RPM it to death. I'd also get a hopped up E4OD to back it, since it has the E4OD already and I want the least pain possible.

    Other than playing nice with the electronics and rear end, I have no other limiting factors I can think of.

    Money is an object, of course, but I still want to hear everything. I want to tow at 70 without the van even breaking a sweat.

    Is a rebuild the best option, or is an already done performance long block a better path?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  2. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Dang John, everything that applies to heating up any modern engine works on a 460 fuelie. Problem is your computer won't be happy with bigger injectors or a longer duration cam without being modified. Same if you bump up the compression ratio with flat top pistons. That move also creates the need for real gasoline, not the swill we buy at the pumps today. Can you loose the bed in the back to haul around a huge fuel cell ? You already know that a 460 pumps a huge amount of fuel and air even under no load, Anything you modify on that engine will increase the fuel use if you get more power from the modification. Adding a turbo charger or super charger might be easier but you will need better pistons. Experience told me that the stock pistons do good to live 15K miles if you force feed the 460. Even with everything optimized the stock pistons will burn thru their tops eventually. Not fun. You also then find the weak parts on thru the powertrain. The bolts holding the axels to the rear hubs need help because a serious boost in grunt shows how easy they can be broken. Cubic dollars to go fast John, it's great fun but rough on the bank.
     
  3. ForistellFord

    ForistellFord In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Well, I wouldn't have to have a hot-wheel looking growth of chrome sticking up out of the hood. I can't remove the back bed, it's a family hauler too. It has the 35 gallon big tank, so it will have to do. The stock 460 isn't a dog really, especially with the 4.10's. I just want more power and hustle. Maybe I don't need a Summit Racing hipo long block...
     
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  4. HuevosRanchero

    HuevosRanchero In Maximum Overdrive

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  5. TestDummy

    TestDummy In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Build yourself a long block, drop it in (from the bottom?) and get a new ECU. Anyone can program an old ECU nowadays.
     
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  6. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    Didn't DF/FF write he was obadiah I and not obadiah II? Can you reprogram ODB I to lessen the suck?
     
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  7. TestDummy

    TestDummy In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    For my Dad's old 96 SS Impala I pulled the ECU and walked it into a place in Warren, MI for reprogramming. The next day I picked it up and installed it. Really woke up that SBC hog.
     
  8. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    Good to know it can be done - who has the skill/capability to make him woke?
     
  9. 5.0 Chero

    5.0 Chero Bahumbug Staff Member

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    OBD II not I
     
  10. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Stared at a 460 powered 4x4 E-350 last night. Satisfied it would be a bear to add a Vortec supercharger but looks ultimately doable. The owner already has a long bed 4x4 F-350 with that setup. Knowing how the pickup runs makes me think you would be impressed John. The nasty part would be pulling the engine to upgrade the pistons. Forged pistons seem to be a necessary thing as the stockers aren't up to having boost thrown at them. Engine comes out the front after removing the grill, radiators, and the bolt in sections of the core support. On his truck the injectors and computer were original. Had to add a booster fuel pump in line after the original pumps. Front tank looks the same as the saddle tank on a pickup but the rear tank is a hoss from a Ford ambulance, 45 gallons. Nothing shows externally, no junk thru the hood or hanging down underneath. Might be your stealth answer. vortec on 97 F-350 002.jpg vortec on 97 F-350 003.jpg
     
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  11. ForistellFord

    ForistellFord In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Ford switched to OBD-II for 1996, but it only got the 150's. The real trucks and vans didn't get it until they switched to the modular inferior stuff for 1997, when they made Super Duty moniker official. They didn't need to call themselves Super Duty to satisfy themselves until 1997. Just knowing it was enough prior.

    So maybe there's some tunes or chips available for OBD-I but I haven't looked.

    Hillbilly, I don't know. That 460 as it sits is a pretty dang tight squeeze in the chassis already...
     
  12. ForistellFord

    ForistellFord In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Another issue is availability. We have two vehicles in the family, and this is one. The other is an 07 Durango, so you can see where I don't feel comfortable having only that as the vehicle for the family... And I do sometimes have business travel and the van sits at the airport while I'm away. Can't have the only running vehicle at an airport parking lot for a week. So, I need to be able to do whatever I do in two or three weeks total downtime.
     
  13. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    You leave a decent vehicle at the airport ????? That's mighty brave ! I keep a beater just for such duty. Changing the spark plugs and wires on my cousin's van was a pain in the ass but with the dog house off the top of the engine is reachable. Same for the front dress if you already had the nose out of the way while doing the piston replacement. Long block back in the hole then everything you would have to address you could reach while sitting on the front bumper. Someone who has a 460 4x4 van has already done the Vortec install, seen it mentioned in a 4x4 magazine a while back.
    Sportsmobile West is the company doing the conversions , maybe they know more about who and what it took to do it. I will say that while it wasn't cheap, that Vortec blower brought that blue F-350 into another world of performance. Scared Couz enough that he put a cage in the truck. Took us around three evenings to do the install including beer breaks.
     
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  14. ForistellFord

    ForistellFord In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    I don't want to scare anyone, I just want enough power so the van doesn't have to kick down on a long grade, and maybe even tow in cruise control without the worry of constant shifting in and out of OD.

    Getting to the bits and bobs isn't as bad as people think... I've had the front of the engine off when I did the timing chain a couple years ago. I'm talking about the hood not closing on the supercharger. That's right where the hood slopes down to the grill and it looks a bit tall. The stock air hat is right at the hood now.
     
  15. ForistellFord

    ForistellFord In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    It's a 1996 conversion van. Not exactly top of the list for thieves. And it's a parking garage, haven't had any issues in all the years yet.
     
  16. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Never say never. I am sure the bits are placed differently to gain clearance. In the pickup they didn't care because of all the hollow realestate. Cousin went from inline six powered Jeeps, he got a bit of culture shock from the 460. Surely you know the old American adage = Too much just has to be about right. Hurt his pride enough that be forked over the cash needed to do an intercooled Gale Banks turbo on his favorite Jeep just to stay in sight of the blue Ford. Go buy a reliable beater, stressing because of no backup isn't worth it. Then play with the big boy.
     
  17. 5.0 Chero

    5.0 Chero Bahumbug Staff Member

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    NOW YOU WILL
     
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  18. ForistellFord

    ForistellFord In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Would cost as much as the upgrades I'm wanting to do.

    Heck, you guys bleed blue, and even you roll your eyes at a conversion van E350. No one wants this thing except me and that's the way I like it.
     
  19. 5.0 Chero

    5.0 Chero Bahumbug Staff Member

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    You just want a shagginwagon
     
  20. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Aside from 5.0's Scooby Doo reference, it's sounding like what you really need for towing ability and decent mileage might be a diesel. My friends who switched from tow rigs with gas engines to diesels will never go back. My buddy up in MN just got a 2019 Silverado with a Duramax and Allison, and he's getting around 20 mpg unloaded, 16 loaded. He tows a Starcraft Islander 221V and a 16' pontoon.
     

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