351C vs. 351M/400

Discussion in 'Ranchero Tech Help' started by AimlessMoto, Dec 19, 2014.

  1. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    What "Midland"? That isn't what the 'M' means in relation to 335 series engines.
     
  2. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Go check my post, #11, to see what I previously said about the name, and just so you understand, I believe that's what the 'M' stands for, as it makes the most sense.
     
  3. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    Yeah, ok.

    Another perpetuation of the MYTH which I suppose if YOU tell it long and often enough a lot of folks will believe it. The engines were produced at Cleveland and Michigan casting plants and modified as an engineering update to accommodate the smog and other engineering changes to improve either the production processes or meet specific design objectives.
     
  4. ForistellFord

    ForistellFord In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    I've heard Midland before. Never really caught on in my mind. M for me made the most sense as 'modified'. Hey, my buddy pointed out the factory in Cleveland where the Cleveland was made, last time I was in Cleveland. I thought it was pretty cool.
     
  5. TestDummy

    TestDummy In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    It's been 'Modified' since I was a kid and my Dad and his buddy's talked about them. We lived 2 miles from Dearborn, and FoMoCo HQ, so they were correct. Midland? How dumb is that?
     
  6. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Do you also consider "Windsor" to be dumb, as the foundry is in Windsor, Ontario, Canada, instead of, oh, say Cleveland?
     
  7. TestDummy

    TestDummy In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Of course not. The 351M was cast in either Cleveland or Flat Rock, MI, neither start with an M, so M must be modified.
     
  8. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    I don't consider any of the engine names dumb. As long as you have some idea of what engine you have when you are hunting parts life is good. My old ragged factory Ford shop manuals refer to those engines as 351/400 Modified, no mention of Midland. That's all I have known thru the years. It's been a while but Dan or someone posted pics showing the difference in the front of the block between the Clevelands and Modifieds. Big difference in the thermostat area makes it easy to spot what you have. Anyone remember those posts ?
     
  9. ForistellFord

    ForistellFord In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Michigan starts with an M, so there.
     
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  10. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    Worthless argument in any respect - none of the Ford Literature I have including shop manuals, parts books, other non-Ford automotive tech manuals have ever mentioned "Midland" in reference to that engine. But who cares??? A 351M or 351M/400 is an engine family starting in 1975 and discontinued in 1979. The only place I've found that refers to it as a Midland is internet car forums - Nothing from FORD. And oddly enough, the first mention of it as I Midland that I can recall was here... go figure.

    Call it what you want - it was a "good" engine of it's time that was virtually orphaned due to short run of years in production and the fact that no one in the aftermarket community (aside from a very few like Keith Black) undertook making parts to realize the engine's potential (considerable). Had one in a '76 LTD - great runner for a lot of years, just wasn't economical to build it and keep it as the years passed.
     
  11. TestDummy

    TestDummy In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    It was the last pushrod engine ford designed. So its got that going for it.
     
  12. mo.herbfarm

    mo.herbfarm In Maximum Overdrive

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    Any idea who designed Ford's 4.0L V-6 OHV engine, as used in early Explorers, maybe pickups too? mo.
     
  13. TestDummy

    TestDummy In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    If you mean the one used in many RWD Ford models throughout the 2000's, no, not personally.
     
  14. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    IIRC that engine's genesis was Europe, Germany if I remember right. And it has it roots back in the 1960's... around the '64 to '66 timeframe.
     
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  15. AimlessMoto

    AimlessMoto In Overdrive

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    Again... go to Fram, Advance, Napa, it other places to look up parts... most say "modified".
     
  16. plumcolr

    plumcolr In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Yah. I had a 76 F 250 series. Smog ports not in heads AND no cat Don't even remember an AIR pump, just all kinds of vacuum solenoids on the ignition

    No cats, no need for AIR / Thermactor.

    PS Modified may have just caught on. Could be Cleveland, Windsor, Michigan
     
  17. mo.herbfarm

    mo.herbfarm In Maximum Overdrive

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    I do know that the OHV's successor, SOHC, but basically the same eng. (as I understand), is made in Cologne, Germany. Not known whether that is a satellite Ford Plant, or a contractor for Ford. mo.
     
  18. rancheromac

    rancheromac In Third Gear

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    The bottom line is , you got sad news . A Cleaveland is a much better and desired motor than the 351/400 MODIFIED
     
  19. AimlessMoto

    AimlessMoto In Overdrive

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    Yup... but I'm just glad that there are some options to add a little power.
     
  20. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    You've got a lot of options with that engine and with a little research and effort you can make it as "good" as any Cleveland. There wasn't a strong market of interest behind that engine such as the proponents of one brand or another and the <pick you base engine and insert it here>...

    That written you can find the go fast parts for it, and you can find a machine shop that can and will do good work to make the engine reach it's potential. There really isn't all that much different in the base engine design of the 'M' series and Cleveland series so figure out what you want it to do and research it - you might be surprised that there are affordable and potent options to get you where you want to be. I've built both, Cleveland's and 'M' engines and have been able to get them to do what I wanted and be reliable.
     

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