'70 - '71 cowl questions

Discussion in 'Ranchero Tech Help' started by burninbush, Jan 23, 2010.

  1. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

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    Been raining biblical here lately, and every day I've had the fun of going out to sponge-up water from the floor pans on my '71.

    Water in the back I kinda expected, since until today the bed drains were plugged solid. But with a long drill bit and a coat hanger I got them open finally [~3 years later].

    But I can't find how water is getting into the front floor pans. Near certain it is not coming around the windshield [interior is completely stripped, even the dash upper and lower are out] -- and my attention is turning to those two vent grills just in front of the windshield.

    It's obvious some water will get into those, especially the way it has been blowing here lately -- but how does it then get out??? Appears that vent arrangement is double-walled somehow -- looking in the open grills, the floor isn't far enough down to be the 'floor' I can see from inside the cab.

    So -- how does air get from the grill into the cabin ductwork; what is the path? And again, where does water get out of that compartment?
     
  2. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    The cowl section is built from two sections, the pictures below are for the Mustang but illustrates the technique. The top photo is the "weather" side of the cowl or upper section. The bottom photo is the section that is under the upper, and contains the vents. The vents have a "stove pipe" through the penetration and those are formed and welded in place. They are common sources of water intrusion from rusting out where they join the lower section. The Mustang models have some repair sections through the 1970 models depending on if you want to buy the complete panels or just repair sections for the lower. I do not know of Torino repair sections and don't know if you could adapt the mustang to repair a Torino cowl leak. Complete sections are in the upper photo set, repair sections the lower photo. All Ford Models from the '60s through the '70's have a similar arrangement, different shapes obviously, but the same arrangement.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Oh! Yeah, there is a drain opening at each end of the cowl that allows the water to drain out that "sandwich" and it runs down the inner side of the front fender right behind the wheel and between the firewall joint and the door hinge mounting area. If those are clogged even a moderate amount of rain will get into the passenger compartment. Have seen both clogged drains and rotted out stovepipes. They can rot on the stovepipe or it can rot at the joint. No rot, drains are clogged and you might have to pull the front fenders loose to be sure you clean the vents properly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2010
  3. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Do you know if the upper drains have ever been cleaned ? You do live around trees with needles and leaves, right ? Ever have to remove piles of leaves from the wiper area ? It's amazing how quickly tree crud and road dirt can form a nice cork in those drains. Your local hardware or parts stores have extendable mirrors that you can use to see back in that cave. A bright light and your mirror will let you find the drains and check the general condition of the cowl. If the carpet is already out a suitable prodding stick and the garden hose work wonders. At least you'll be able to see if you need to repair any holes. Who knows, you might be lucky and still have paint in there thus needing no further effort.
     
  4. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

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    OK, good info, I'll try to locate those drains.

    There is no visible crud under the top sheetmetal layer [the plastic screens are out] -- but who knows what's in the far corners.

    I've had that vertical plastic chimney on the pass side out, no obvious damage under it. On the driver's side there is a similar cowl structure, but it has a flat plate closing it, no chimney -- I think that's a feature of an a/c car.

    @ H.B. -- sadly, all the pines in my neighborhood got sick and died -- a beetle of some sort got them all. Had two ~50 year-old trees in my back yard, and across the street there were some 100-year trees that had to be taken out. All within a span of about 15 years.
     
  5. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    Hate to break this news to you but... the plastic chimney piece is the "quick fix" developed in the aftermarket for a rotted out and leaking chimney. Ford didn't make them with the car...
     
  6. ClskMstg

    ClskMstg In Fourth Gear

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    I'd do the water test. My cowls are good - seemingly so. I discovered that I have water coming in sometimes via a hole in the seam between the horizontal section and the vertical section of the cowl.

    You also might want to check your door rubbers. I replaced mine and it helped with the water.

    This doesn't begin to get into the drains in the bed and water coming in the rear.

    Or, the rear window....

    Damn these Rancheros leak!
     
  7. 5.0 Chero

    5.0 Chero Bahumbug Staff Member

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    Just drill a few drain holes in the floor..:eek:
     
  8. CJ Guy

    CJ Guy In Maximum Overdrive

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    Yes what a just fix for a lib...:D

    But seriously BB, the only way you can get to the drains is pop the fender off. You might get lucky running water into the cowl, it might clear but if indeed they are clogged and overflowing into the cab ya need to clean them out. Disassemble and reach up there from under the dash and inspect, see whats going on, then take appropriate action...
     
  9. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Maybe I cheated sorta' there CJ by having another identical car there to inspect, but with some rigging you can reach the drains from the top screened in holes. Recognise that the drains are in the forward part of the box kinda' behind the hood hinge area. A wicked bright light, a good mirror, and something you can maneuver into place that's stiff enough to break small twigs, well - - it can be done. Then hose the junk out and wash it out of the bottom of the fender too. On a 70/71 you can actually see the drain holes with the doors open looking thru the back of the fender just beside the upper rear fender bracket. Getting something behind there to poke at the holes is another story. Something around the house can be comandeered for this job. A small diameter piece of copper pipe artfully twisted just right worked for me. Next one I tackle I will definately remove the hood first because the human body ain't meant for the maneuvers needed to see back in that hole.
    BB, its called a Pine Bark Beetle. We lost thousands of acres of beautiful trees in the southeast thanks to that pest.
     
  10. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    Have used the coil spring looking covering that goes over sections of brake and fuel line to prod and loosen up clogged drains. Works well. Have had to rebuild more than one of those cowl vent stovepipes, seems that some of those weren't painted at the factory, others weren't sealed up as they should have been promoting water resting in the joints. It has become an annual maintenance ritual to go through and verify the drains are cleaned, and many times it requires at the minimum taking the bottom of the fender loose to remove the debris that gets trapped between the fender structural support and the lower fender skin. I've also used the flexible wands that are with the undercoating kits to spray material around the stovepipes to seal the surfaces. It takes about a day to initially do the complete inspect, clean, seal, and verify the integrity of the inner cowl section but it is worth the investment in time in the long term. Best done with the dash and carpet removed but you can do it with them inplace with some thoughtful and strategic placement of plastic and some upholstery foam trimmed to fit the openings so you don't get sealing material into your A/C - heater vent plenums.
     
  11. George Zinn

    George Zinn In Third Gear

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    You can also close off the vents to prevent water from going in at all. "Cowl cover industries" makes the covers for Mustang (don't believe they make for anything else). What I have done for other vehicles is get a piece of polycarb (from your local hardware store), cut it to fit over the cowl openings. Call Cowl cover (352-317-7623) and order a "do it yourself" kit. I assume they are still around (in Florida). Haven't ordered from them since 2005 (paid $12.95 for the kit).
     
  12. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

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    I wonder if someone can take a look at this pic below, and draw an arrow to approximately where the drain holes are located?

    And, if I remove the chimney [pass side] can I get to the drain area through that hole? And same for the flat blockoff plate on the driver's side?

    @G.Zinn ... I'm also thinking blockoff plates -- won't need those vents till summer, during which it never rains here.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    It looks like yers is covered liberally


    ...with glop. That could be your problem...

    [​IMG]
     
  14. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

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    @72 ... thanks, that clarifies it. Not my car, just a pic from my collection of Ranchero files; the yellow circle is a VIN location. Somebody in the past answered somebody else's question, I saw it and snagged a copy of the answer.

    What about my q regarding access through the vertical air hole? I'm not anxious to remove the fenders.

    Blocking plates are looking better all the time. And for anyone else who reads this, there are also holes beneath each wiper shaft, meant to drain water directly into that plenum.
     
  15. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    If you have something flexible enough to get around things and rigid enough to push through you might be able to do it. As Petey/Hillbilly suggested, an inspection mirror, semi-contortionist propensities, you can get at them from the top. From within the cab, no, not unless your hand flattens to about 1/2" and can make 3 half right angle bends in the X, Y, and Z axis between your wrist and your elbow. Once you know where to look, and with a bright light, and a flexible item such as a stainless steel CB radio whip antenna or the aforementioned spring winding wrap that goes on brake and fuel lines you should be able to poke it through to where you can see the end of it with the door open. I use a high pressure water nozzle to wash mine out periodically now that I know where to aim it and how to keep from getting water inside through the ducts when doing it.
     
  16. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

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    @72 -- gotcha, thanks again.

    Oh ... re using high pressure water spray -- through the vent holes, or from outside behind the door hinge?
     
  17. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    I remove the plastic covers on the top of the cowl and using care not to direct the solid stream into the stovepipes I forcefully eject debris through the drains at both ends of the cowl. Once you have the lay of the land under there you can do this fairly effectively with minimal contortionist activities.
     
  18. CJ Guy

    CJ Guy In Maximum Overdrive

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    BB here is my 68 I'm doing, this is what your looking for, example where and how big

    [​IMG]
    Dan and HB are right, forgot that it had the screens up there, I did mine that way when I got the 72 back here. But you won't know the condition of the cowl/stovepipes unless you dissemble, have fun...:D
     
  19. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    CJ's Stang picture is really close to what you are looking for save that the drain hole is under that horizonal brace on 70/71 Fairlane cowls. You can't see the drain from the top side. Both circles are up too high in the other pic.
    Before you reinstall the upper screens try adding another layer of screen under them. Plastic screen door mesh will let enough air thru and is easy to cut to shape. ????? I have never seen one with the driver's side vent pipe blocked off from the factory. All A/C cars I've had have had a cable controled vent hanging down on the driver's side that did not connect to the left dash vent like on the non A/C cars. Pretty sure the 70 Ranchero with A/C I just got has the left vent also. May be a quirk on cars destined for the Southeast ?
     
  20. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

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    Pretty sure the 70 Ranchero with A/C I just got has the left vent also. May be a quirk on cars destined for the Southeast ? >HB

    +++++++++++++

    Interesting question -- I'll be interested to hear if your car really has it.

    The blockoff plate on my car may be aftermarket. I can see looking at the heat-a/c drawings in the '71 manual that the vertical chimney on the passenger side is different than the drawings -- 72gtva already informed me that the factory parts weren't plastic. There is no driver's-side manual vent control on my car, either.
     

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