'78 Cali Car w/460 CID Long Term Project

Discussion in 'The Stable' started by Krazzyk, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Those are only 1.25" OD and the ones that came off are 1.9". I understand those have been squished but the concaved metal disc/washer that goes on top of it is 1.5" That's a .250 overlap of the bushing.

    Responses might be a little slow today. I've got a Super Bowl party to prep for.
     
  2. 5.0 Chero

    5.0 Chero MODERATOR Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,125
    Location:
    Prunetucky California
    I did not say they were exact replacements I said they will work the over hang will not cause any problems
     
  3. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    I've got an awesome job!

    I recently changed positions where I work and went from being a technician working on our tools to an engineer in our Equipment Innovation department.
    Basically, I went from wanting to make improvements to the way we do things, to the engineer that makes those improvements my primary purpose.

    We are lucky enough to have a Tech Shop near us and my employer pays for my membership and all the classes and stuff for me to do part of my work from there.

    http://www.techshop.ws/

    If you're lucky enough to have one of the nine in the country near you I would HIGHLY recommend you check it out. I was shocked at how much they have there to work with. Kid in a candy store would be an understatement of the century.

    Anyway,

    I'm going to do some of the powder coating myself since they have the stuff at the Tech Shop for me to do that.
    I'll still need to have Highpoint Powder Coating do the big stuff: Frame, Rear axle.

    But I think I'm settling in on a finishing plan for the Ranchero.

    I'm going to air bag the entire car. No slamming it on the ground, I'm not getting any younger and I've got a hard enough time getting out of my Camaro. lol

    For the entire rolling chassis I'm going to powder coat it all, along with the inner wheel well tubs and core support, with the Copper Vein.

    [​IMG]

    For the body I'm thinking I'll redo the matte black on the hood and spray the entire car with a matte finish clear coat to seal it all up and that's it.
    One thought in all that is if I ever decide to put a nice paint job on the thing it'll already have the chassis done and it'll just be a paint job at that point.

    Today I'm hoping to knock all the old rubber out of the old bushing sleeves.

    I'm going to sandblast those sleeves, but should I powder coat them before installing them? Or, Should I install them and then powder coat the entire arm? Not sure the best way to do this. Don't know if the Polyurethane like 400 degrees for 15 min or if I can put the sleeve in the arm and then coat, then install the poly.....???? Help
     
  4. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas




    Ahhh....New Ideas. Gotta love'm.

    I was looking over the car and it's in such great original shape it just kind of made me a little ill when I thought of stripping it all down and erasing all of that. I mean there's original factory stickers under the hood!
     
  5. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,521
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    Hahaha, typical teenager...fidgeting and itching to tear in! Plus, the confidence of having the engine out in four hours. And I think you made an excellent choice in not tearing the car down. Of course, make sure that anything it does need is taken care of, and be mindful that the mods on the engine means the trans will need more protection from the uptick in power. I will be watching this thread more closely now.
     
  6. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,035
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    Hopefully you are pulling the engine with trans(I would do it the same way) outside the garage, since it looks like the garage door won't give you enough height to lift the engine/trans combo out. Good luck and be safe, you got around 800- 850lbs to pull/maneuver.
     
  7. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    8,139
    Location:
    near SF
    Lots of luck getting the lifter close enough to the motor; it'll run into the front bumper. Dunno why it would be better to get the motor + trans, I think it's much simpler going out or in doing the motor alone. As noted by Andy, you don't have to lift the whole thing so high to clear the car. If you need to move the car with the motor out, it's pretty easy to use a couple of small chains [bolted onto the firewall] to hold it up.
     
  8. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,035
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    I have found it is always been easier to pull engine/trans as one unit than pull them apart under the vehicle. The first time we (me and my Father) removed a 302/C4 and installed a 460/C6 out of a '76 T-bird(motor mounts and trans x-member went right in) we had the engine's exchanged in about 2 hours and the 460 running at the 3 hour mark. Done the same every time I install an engine whether it was for my Ranchero, lifted 4x4 F250, F100, Isuzu pickup or recently my son's Toyota 4Runner. Maybe I am just hard headed.
     
  9. LSChero

    LSChero In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,663
    Location:
    Area 6 NV
    It will come out one as a unit with adjustable screw angle rigging.Remove the balancer pulleys,carb,wipermotor.Chain to the heads as close to manifold as possible.Make sure your on level concrete.I like to roll the ranchero away from hoist once the drive line is at altitude.
    This is a 400/FMX anchor.Think its pertnear same gerth as 460.
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Yep. Engine and trans come out in a single trip. The rear axle is already out. The entire car is up on jack stands so it's even easier. Lift the engine/trans a bit, jack the front end up, pull the stands and lower the front of the car down and out of the way. Pull back the engine/trans and rock and roll.

    The sad thing is the engine is brand new. It's still on it's original oil. The guy I bought it from put it and the new C6 in it shortly before I bought the truck. Supposedly, the engine has a stock'ish cam in it and stock heads. The only other thing I can tell you from the sales slip I got with the paperwork is the engine was rebuilt by a machine shop that's now out of business.

    So....I plan on pulling it apart and doing the mods I've read about on the 460. I've done this type of work before on a 455 Olds engine and that turned out good. I also did a nice port and polish job on my four valve OHC V6 Dodge Magnum.

    I'm hoping to get some more information off the block numbers. I just took a pic off the block. DIVE-6015-A2B That sounds/looks like DOVE as in the head numbers. I'll have to look this up.

    My fenders are so out of line I just may take them off too. I need to clean out all the leaves and crap in there anyway.
     
  11. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Yep. That's the same rigging I've got. Nice looking engine you've got there.
     
  12. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    5,521
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    If the front sheetmetal's out of alignment, go ahead and pull the full clip and bumper. It'll give you access you'd only dream of. As for the heads, D0VE and D3VE are very close to each other (D3VEs are Lincoln heads). The only question I have is this: has the engine been run for break-in yet? If not, you're in the clear for teardown and the new parts; if it has, you'll need to ensure the engine has been cleared of the break-in oil and filter before assembly with the new parts. Every passage needs to be clean so that any minute metal particles don't end up doing damage to the new parts.
     
  13. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Here's an article I plan to follow concerning the block. The heads,...we'll see which ones they are and if they're worth messing with. The number I posted last night was off the block.

    http://www.highflowdynamics.net
     
  14. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,035
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    DOVE-C heads are a fairly good iron head, they can and have been proven(with port work and larger valves)to support over 700hp, although the performance upgrade and weight savings with going with 40 year newer technology aftermarket aluminum heads(just say no to Pro Comp heads) gets real attractive price-wise when all the all the work on the iron heads are totaled.
    The D1VE-A2B block is a good base to start with and will also support over 700hp even with 2 bolt mains it has. Your block has a revision over the earlier 385 series blocks, it has wider pan rails which not only strengthens the block, but also helps with oil pan gasket leak issues. The block and heads, if paired together from the factory, places this combo somewhere in the '70-'71 model year. It could/should have a deck height of 10.310", whereas the earlier blocks (DOVE-A) have 10.300" DH or the later (D9TE) have 10.322" DH, a machine shop would be able to determine this.
    A "decent" rebuild on a C6 will easily handle over 500hp/500lb ft torque, adding more clutches, servo upgrade, installing roller bearings as well as valve body mods will easily allow a daily 700hp trans. 429-460.com or 460ford.com has a WEALTH of 385 engine series info, great folks that won't steer you in the wrong direction. Good luck.
     
  15. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    All good to know. I've not found the code on the heads yet. This weekend we will likely take the front clip off and then pull the engine/trans. Hell, I might just leave the engine/trans in there until we tear the engine down to a short block and then pull it. Space is always a premium.

    I've got my powder coating guy coming to the house on Friday to take a look and give me an estimate on powder coating the ENTIRE car. Since there is very little body work needed on the car it MIGHT be a viable idea. If he can give me a decent price on the entire deal we'll do it.

    Figure this would be a good opportunity for Jr. to get a personal loan with me on it, do the whole deal, and build his credit up with the car/project. We'll see.

    IF, that's the route we go, I'm thinking we might actually wrap this thing up in a year. Maybe....
     
  16. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Had my meeting with my powder coating guy. While there's some agreed upon conditions,...timing, and my building a roller frame for the body to be moved around on, I'm looking at about $4,500 to do it all.

    I'm thinking that's a really good deal.
     
  17. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Okay. The gas tank is out and drained. It was 3/4 full. We drained it and put it all in my two other cars. So a 3/4 tank of gas from a '78 Ranchero will take a 2014 Ford Edge from 3/8 to FULL and a 2013 Camaro from 5/8 to FULL and leave about a gallon or two in the portable tank. lol

    We pulled the carb and the intake to get ready to pull the engine and trans together but I can't find half of the chains for my load leveler on my hoist. I'm thinking it's better to go get some than to try and lift that out of there with only two chains.

    Update on the project overall. We settled on a budget for this work. $6k plus or minus a little if needed. Now that that's in place we're racking our brains trying to make the most out of it.
    I do project management at work so I'm teaching it to Decklin as we do this project. That will be the very boring part for him but should help with time/money and keep us from dropping it all together.

    The engine is clean inside. VERY clean! But we've been finding a lot of very loose bolts all over the truck. Seems the last owner either wasn't strong enough to put things together enough, or didn't know enough to be doing the job in the first place. Don't know. I'm just glad we're going through this entire truck.

    We found some disturbing things as we went along as well.
    Tell me what you see wrong with this picture of the distributer shaft as I pulled it out....

    [​IMG]

    Ya. That tie-wrap was still on the shaft and inside the engine. Not good. I don't think it would've ever came off but the fact that it was in there doesn't instill confidence in me of a quality build.

    It looks like the block was shot-peened so much the date codes are completely illegible now. Maybe y'all can figure it out.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here's the head code:

    [​IMG]

    Figure I'll gasket match them and the intake. Knowledge here is welcome too. Unless that is, one of y'all know of some really affordable aluminum heads.

    We really want to make this a full roller engine. Roller cam, rockers, and lifters.
    We need advice on that one. Never done that before and I need help with selection and knowledge on that subject.
    What needs to be done to these heads in order to make rollers work on them?


    Just because I took the picture I figured I'd through the door sticker in here as well.

    [​IMG]

    And the videos of the past couple days.





     
  18. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

    Messages:
    16,987
    Location:
    California
    A roller cam is great, but may be hard to squeeze into your budget.
     
  19. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    From what I've been looking at, part wise, I don't think it would be hard to do at all. What makes it so expensive? Parts, or machine shop work on the heads?

    Thanks,
     
  20. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

    Messages:
    16,987
    Location:
    California
    A decent roller cam, roller lifters, and pushrods will start creeping up on a grand.
    Then your distributor will need a gear that matches the cam, probably a poly. If one is available for your distributor it is just a gear change. Usually a different distributor is required.
     

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