'78 Cali Car w/460 CID Long Term Project

Discussion in 'The Stable' started by Krazzyk, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    The "C4" has nothing to do with the trans type, it is a C6. HOWEVER:


    PJA-C3, 4 C6 400 8 1973 Ford (A) (exc. P/C and fleet) This is the line for this particular trans on Fordification.com's trans application page for 1973-79 cars and Broncos, listing that it would've backed a 400.

    http://www.fordification.net/tech/transapps_73-79cars.htm
     
  2. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear

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    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    That doesn't sound good if I have any intentions of building this engine up a bit.
     
  3. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    It is easy to get a c-6 to handle 700HP
     
  4. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear

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    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    So what's it take to doo that?
     
  5. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Are you going to go to 700HP?
    If only going to 500, quality clutches and an improved servo are all that is needed. A shift kit is optional.
    Higher and you are getting into Kevlar friction products and a billet servo along with stronger input and output shafts. Maybe even a wide ratio gear set and bearing upgrade.
     
  6. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    And, don't forget, fluid cooling capacity. I would recommend the highest capacity auxiliary cooler, no matter what power the engine makes.
     
  7. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    The 'highest capacity' cooler would cost more than a new transmission.
    I run a fan forced unit over the rear axle that then routes through the radiator to keep the fluid from getting too cold at idle and cruise. That one was over $500 and no where near the most powerful one.
    It is adequate for the around 700HP I run with a 2500RPM convertor. It could probably handle a bit higher stall, but not a 3500 if used for extended periods on the street.
    For a 500HP application and 2500 or under convertor a large front mounted cooler without a fan will work well.
     
    Mike1969 likes this.
  8. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear

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    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    As far as trans cooling goes the car had a new ~ 12" x 10" stand alone cooler and when we do the A/C that evaporator has another cooler in it as well. Figured I link them together and that should be good. I remember being advised not to use that one but I'm thinking it will be fine for what we're doing. It's not like I'm going to track this car or be making 1000 HP.

    I was just checking out Holly's new Sniper EFI last night. That thing is awesome! It does a lot for the money. Check it out.

    We got our two new 12" electric fans and some other parts in yesterday. It was a little like Christmas. LOL



    I'm drawing up an aluminum shroud in AutoCAD Fusion 360 and then I'll make it at the Tech Shop. Should be cool.

    More stuff showing up all the way into next week.

    Tore off the Oil pan last night to find the engine has Speed Pro pistons in it. So far so good on that end.

    ???

    On the heads we have. If I want to put roller rockers on there and leave the cam a solid lifter, what's the highest lift I can use without having to do major head work to make it work? I'm looking for that real loapy sounding cam.

    I'm really looking at that sniper system from Holly. I've got to look at the math and see what I can get out of selling the new/old stuff I've been taking off of this thing to pay for the newer, better, faster go fast stuff. lol

     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  9. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear

    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    [​IMG] Okay, sorry it's been a little while since I posted anything on here.

    Since the last post the frame is out and we power washed it and the rear axle housing. I've got to head out to work in a min so I'll post the pictures and video and come back later to fill in some gaps.

    I'm not thrilled with the way I have the body supported up in the air right now. There are two rubber blocks at each end, the fronts on the outer part of the floor board and the back end has a board across the gas tank supports that are part of the underside of the bed. I'll change this around tonight once I get home from work. I'm going to run boards down the channel where the frame normally goes on each side and also under the ass end.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Spent the day power washing the frame yesterday with Decklin.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Found some of the body mount bushings are actually in VERY good shape. Anybody need a part number? LOL

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Started to do my own powder coating on the small stuff. The powder gun at the Tech Shop was jacked up so I've got to redo some of it. Should've stopped as soon as I knew it wasn't right. Oh well, lesson learned. I ordered my own gun so once it's here I'll start back up.

    The purpleish color is suppossed to be a redish purple so I want to try that again with my new gun before I ditch that color. I really like the US Penny Vein for the frame.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I'm going to need to sand out all that powder before I push new bushings in, I know. Had to coat something! I was dying waiting to see what it looked like. lol


    Went ahead and bought the new Holley Sniper EFI complete kit for $1,295. I think it's a steal for all the stuff it does. If you don't know anything about it you really need to look it up. Amazing how far we've come.

    [​IMG]

    Welded in cross braces and then boxed in the control arms. Don't think I'm going to roll with these. They're heavy enough to install on a Sherman tank now! lol

    [​IMG]

    If anyone can help. I need the side marker light that goes on the driver's side rear quarter panel. The lens on mine is broke.

    Gotta run for now.

    Later
     
    HuevosRanchero likes this.
  10. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    4,911
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    Wow. This rig's gonna be a shiny penny when you're through. What was the cost on the EFI kit?
     
  11. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear

    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    $1,295 at Jegs.com
     
  12. LSChero

    LSChero In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    That the cleanest body/frame i have seen!PO took good care of her.Great job you and your boy are doing!
    I have needed marker light,but will be a few weeks till i get my part collection out of hock.
    S4300093.JPG
     
  13. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear

    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas

    Cool! Pm me with what you're looking for on those.
     
  14. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear

    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Question. Does anyone know if I can powder coat the diff face without taking the diff completely apart?
    I'd have to bake the entire thing for a total of about 20 minutes at 400 F.

    Other than the front pinion seal I don't see any parts with rubber on them.

    Thanks.
     
  15. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

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    There is an O-ring on the pinion housing, resides within the case when assembled. You can remove the housing by unbolting, remove the O-ring, do your coating then re-install after heating. Will not change gear's wear pattern, removing and then re-installing the pinion seal could change the wear pattern if not careful. If you mark the pinion and pinion nut before removal and "just" go past where these two marks lined up you should be fine. Mark the pinion/ring gear so you can make sure they are "timed" as before you removed the front pinion assembly. As to not open a "can of worms", I believe I would clean it up and spray with whatever good quality epoxy paint I could find. Your ride though, you have to make that decision.

    EDIT: after relooking over you pics, you will need to or rather should now have to take the differential to a driveline specialist to make sure the backlash and gear pattern is returned to a good contact reading since you have already removed the pinion yoke without marking(I am only assuming here) the pinion shaft and pinion nut(if the crush sleeve is still installed). Unless you have experience in differential gear set up, you can get lucky and assemble it and get 100K mile service or unlucky with a 10 mile service life(possibly less) out of those gears. Just saying. If you do take this diff to a pro, have them install a solid spacer with shims(this gets rid of the one time use crush sleeve) on the pinion shaft to set gear pattern so you could always replace the pinion seal without going through with resetting/checking gear pattern. Good luck
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  16. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Krazzyk,
    If you have the necessary tools, another option is removing the pinion assembly and remove the outer pinion bearing, remove the pinion from the pinion housing, measure the crush sleeve's thickness, then order a solid spacer/shim kit off of Ebay and install the solid spacer/shims to perfectly reflect the original crush sleeve measurement(there could also be shims used depending on machining tolerances, so those need to be taken into account for overall measurement if used). Do not mess with the 2 side bearing adjusters. I would still advise a driveline specialist but if you are careful and have the tools this can be done at home. Sorry to give a bit of bad news, better to know now though. Just trying to help.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  17. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    The purpose of the crush washer is to set bearing preload, not pinion depth.
    Pinion depth is set with washers.
    A new crush washer is cheap, and should be used with an inch/pound torque wrench to seat bearing preload. Replacing the crush bearing does NOT change pinion depth.
     
  18. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,006
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    Ribald1 you are correct to a certain extent, especially the pinion housing shims(err.... washers), it can/will change gear pattern if preload is too much(advanced bearing wear) or not enough. Sure you can use a new crush sleeve and new pinion seal, but you better "sneak" up on the pre-load # because if go too tight you will need a new sleeve AND seal unless you have the needed shims(really not recommended with the crush sleeve, but have seen them run that way). The solid spacer/shim method can be set up without the seal installed(although the new seal will add a minute amount of drag) and take it apart and back together any number of times, once you get the needed pre-load # you can then remove the yoke, install the seal and torque the pinion nut to spec without changing pre-load. This method also allows changing a pinion seal much less of a hassle. Just an option, both will work fine, not necessarily wrong with using either method.
     
    rancheromac likes this.
  19. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Shim, washer, I was taught that it was a shim if straight force pressed against it, a washer if rotational force pressed against it.
    So, most of the ones in the pinion housing are washers, but the centering shims of the center section (even though they look like washers), are shims.
    I can see how your method could work if one has access to a lathe and the tooling to face a washer down to an accurate thickness.
    Using a new crush washer only requires a vice and 2 torque wrenches, a standard, and an inch/pound. things most people can easily get ahold of.
    Yes, you have to sneak up on the pressure.
    One other thing. Your method assumes that the previous install was correct. THAT is a huge assumption, unless you did it yourself.
     
  20. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

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    Oh the terminology stumbling block, the shims I am referring to are for the pinion bearings and the pinion housing:
    Bearing shims(along side solid spacer): Oh they are already lathed down :rolleyes: to a specific thickness.
    [​IMG]

    Pinion housing shims:
    [​IMG]

    Call Randy's Ring and Pinion and ask him for pinion washers and see what they respond with. My apologies if I wasn't as clear on their descriptions as needed/required.
    I have to say good luck with the crush sleeve method, some require as little as 200lb ft whereas I have had others take 0ver 275 lb ft to get the crush sleeve to do it's thing, a bit difficult sneaking up on that # when using a "regular" 250 ft lb 1/2" torque wrench. I really don't need the original crush sleeve to help reset pre-load, although if the gears/bearings look good it would be a good point of reference for dimension/thickness, the solid spacer/shim method allows movement either way without needing more parts as described in my previous post. I just gave another option that could benefit the OP, I will just leave it there.
     

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