Howdy, Next week is going to start a new chapter for my '73. For one thing I found a different mechanic. The fixes I'm planning include routine maintenance, some small items that have bugged me for awhile, some repairs of repairs that weren't repaired and some major issues. A total of 28 things. In no particular order here's the list: Tune-up (plugs, belts, spark plug wires, air cleaner, etc). Oil and filter change. Replace 10 year old battery. Heater controls adjusted. Glove box adjusted. Replace fuel sending unit. Make sure the gas tank properly vents. Replace carburetor. Check all vacuum hoses on intake manifold, remove unnecessary ones. Find correct air cleaner and reattach ram-air hose. Headlights (all four) are badly in need of adjustment. Strange rattle from under dash going over washboard road. Check brakes (pads, master cylinder, power booster and vacuum hose). Wheel alignment. Fix windshield wipers so they park correctly. Replace wiper blades. Grease and align driver and passenger side windows. Grease hood hinges. Check oil sending unit. Check oil pump pressure. Check engine temp sending unit as engine temp appears to be running cool. Check inner and outer wheel bearings. Grease steering. Adjust transmission kick down. Check fuel pump pressure. Fix passenger side interior felt (fuzzy). Replace all four shocks for a stiffer ride. Check differential oil. I've asked to be notified if the mechanic finds anything else which could pose a safety issue. There are a couple items in the list that I'm struggling with and I don't know what to do. For example #6 and #7, replacing the fuel sending unit and making sure the gas tank properly vents. The fuel gauge works, but a topped off fuel tank reads just under the full mark. Also, I noticed recently that if I fill the tank and drive continuously, when the gauge gets down to a quarter of a tank the engine will start to sputter and then stall. I pull off the road, wait a few minutes and I can restart the engine. After restarting, the engine runs fine without any further issues, so I'm thinking that's venting. I looked at the Dearborn Classics website and see they have one sending unit located here. I thought the '73 had two pipes coming out of the sending unit, one for venting and the other for the gas line. If it is one tube, then how does the tank vent? Dearborn Classics also sells a Fuel Tank Vent Valve for the '73, but I don't know if I need that. What I want to do is fix all gas tank issues. To do that, do I also need the Fuel Filler Seal and the Vent Valve Seal? Probably the biggest issue is #8, replacing the carburetor. The engine specs are in my signature. Right now the engine is burning rich, and the choke doesn't work. Currently and as near as I can tell, the carburetor is not the original. Here's what it looks like: The tag is stamped with "D6PE AFA A 8E 2", so I think it's a '76 carburetor. I suppose I could get it rebuilt, but what would you do? Rebuild or replace? And, if replaced, with what? Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to include as much detail as I could. Thanks for reading. Edit: Fixed a paragraph location error. Edit: Add item 28 to the list.
The fuel tank vent is in a cap at the top of the tank, easiest way to check if it is clear is to blow air back from the fuel vent line on the PASSENGER side and see if it blows through. Since we are talking about it, do you have the fuel vent canister installed and is the fuel vent line connected and the hose not collapsed? The sender appears to be the correct one for your application. The D6PE AFA A 8E 2 carburetor is the Ford replacement for the 4300D 4V carburetor correct for the car (The D6PE indicates it is the replacement part - AFA is a calibration code) that looks like a 4350 - you might be happier with the 4300D assuming you have the original factory intake still installed. Pony Carbs does the best job rebuilding those (that is going to take some time to send it and get it back). Rock Auto does list carrying a rebuilt carb as their part number AUTOLINE Part # C898A http://www.rockauto.com/
It's a Motorcraft 4350 from a '76-77 460. Here's a link to a site where you can download the manual for $5. Carb Doctor Motorcraft 4350
Fuel starvation issue could be from a partially blocked fuel sending unit filter or "sock" that is attached to the end of the sending unit's fuel feed tube. Here is a pic of what I am referring to, the "sock" is located under the brass float. Good luck with your progress.
If the Dearborn Fuel Tank Vent Valve is the correct one, I'd rather just replace it. Also, replace any hose that's attached. The fuel vent canister, that's the coffee can looking thing that's mounted to the frame in front of the passenger side motor mount. If so, it's there, but I don't know about the hose going to it. I know the flexible cardboard looking tube no longer runs from the can to the air cleaner as it recently teared. That's a relief to know that. I've been going back and forth with one tube vs two tubes all day. Why would I be happier with the 4300D? I suspect one reason might be that the 4300D doesn't have a open channel to the fuel bowl, which allows the gas to quickly evaporate. Both the carburetor and the intake are original to me, I don't know if they are original to the vehicle. It looks like the carburetor might be sitting on an adapter plate: If there's an adapter, I don't know if it was added later. Looks like it's been there awhile. I take it that the one located here , the C898A, is a 4300D?
A 460? Maybe that's why the engine is running rich. If I do go the rebuild route, I probably won't do the rebuild myself. None the less thanks for the link.
If it was the fuel sending unit filter, wouldn't that cause a problem all the time? It only stalls when I've been continuously driving on a full tank of gas and the level gets down to about a quarter tank. Thanks. And, thanks for all the quick replies. Much appreciated.
Carb first, and yes, that is the 4300D and is what came on the car originally and is correct to the 351 CJ engine. It doesn't have the square stack at and in between the secondaries which was an emission feature developed for the later model 460 engines. I've found it easier to tune to the 351 CJ than trying to get the 4350 Carb working properly (I had one and it never did work as well as the 4300D that was on the car originally - and I spent a year tweaking on it only to have one thing finally come in the way I wanted it or felt it should work to have another problem come up - just was never happy with the 4350 - Your experience may differ). Both the 4300D and the 4350 are notorious for developing leaks between the main body and the top cover - and the Ford TSB solution is to ALWAYS double gasket the top cover during a rebuild. On inspection, and my memory on the actual numbers may be off, but the 4350 replacement carb that I had from Ford and fought with had 63F jets - the 4300D used 58F jets depending on the DSO/48 states non-high altitude calibration - I suppose the difference between a 351CJ thirst versus a 460 thirst. Don't hold me to the numbers of the jets, but that is my recollection. The plate under your carburetor is the EGR manifold plate, the manifold casting design being changed and implemented in 1973. Up to you if you want to use that or just use it as a spacer/insulator - just be aware that the 1973 intake is ported for EGR and you will need something to block the exhaust gases running up to the base of the carb, or channel the exhaust gases to the carb for the reburn if you do decide to use it. There is a punched metallic/fiber coated gasket that goes between the EGR plate and the manifold, and then a thick fiber gasket (about an 1/8" thick or maybe a little more) that goes between the EGR plate and the carburetor. Do inspect the EGR plate when you have the opportunity to remove it - those are known to exfoliate and/or suffer from extreme erosion over time or if the plate to manifold gasket has deteriorated. That can cause a direct exhaust leak into your intake/combustion cycle and really mess with you in trying to tune the car. Yes, the evaporation cannister is as you described it, and often the fuel lines from the tank vent at the top, running in a 1/4" fuel line on the right frame rail and thence to the evaporation cannister get a little gummed up. Just making sure that those are clear should solve your vent problem. The fuel tank vent valve that Dearborn offers is actually the stock type fuel vent offered on 1974 and up 26 gallon fuel tanks and not the '72/'73 22 gallon tanks, and uses a gas impervious rubber seal whereas the '72/'73 tank vent is staked into place using a different arrangement meaning that arrangement where the fuel vent attaches the to tank is different and I suspect you will spend a lot of time adapting the new fuel vent to fit your tank. That has been my experience. You can get the cardboard tube to replace the line from the cannister to the air cleaner. That is one of the late 60's early 70's emission features that didn't really have any impact on how the car runs, it just prevents your fuel from evaporating off into the atmosphere. With the cannister, the vapor vented from the tank is collected in the activated charcoal and the volatiles pulled into the combustion cycle via the air cleaner - but a lot of folks that eliminated that, or capped the lines, or blocked it bought themselves a world of woe with fuel vent issues and sucking the tank to collapse. It really doesn't require a lot of air movement back into the tank via the vent to prevent the problem but you need some. The holes at the fuel vent in the tank valve are pretty small, less than 1/8". Up to you on what you do with the vent/cannister arrangement, but whatever you do, don't block or cap the line from the fuel tank vent, or vent it to another location to atmosphere which I wouldn't advise.
Try driving it without the gas cap installed or at least partially open, if it doesn't stall it may point towards the venting issue, if it stalls I would look at the fuel pick-up sock as a possibility. If the sock is partially blocked it would give the same symptoms you are describing. Todd
If your plans are to remain stock, ..the 4350 is adequate...I ran one for years on my 460. If increased performance and/or efficiency are in your plans...its a pig. Keep in mind if you were to go the square bore carb route....you would need to change out the intake manifold as well to do the job properly.
Wow that is quite the list. It is good to see that another Ranchero is in good hands and being maintained. I cannot offer any suggestions on your questions but I must say the responses are impressive and I have learned several things reading through this thread. Laters, Jeff
I worked in a shop that specialized in carb rebuilding and drivability, so I'll give what I can to help. The 4300/4350 are fairly tricky carbs to rebuild and dial in. It really needs to be done by someone with a few decades' experience if you go that route. Now, if you don't mind changing from stock, and don't groan loudly at this suggestion, this is what my then-boss told me about my '74s 351C-2V: That I should change over to a GM quadrajet. In your case, changing to a Q-puke means not having to swap intakes, as it's a spreadbore carb, like the 4300/4350, and I can't remember if the Autolite and Rochester carbs have the same bolt pattern but you'll need some kind of thick plate that covers the bolt pattern or retain the EGR plate if the Q-puke fits it properly to give the mixture some distance to gain velocity before taking that first turn into the runners. There are several different versions you can choose from based on CFM rating, and anyone who knows the ass from their elbow can rebuild one. Plus, for hooking it up to the go pedal and kickdown, I think it's Edelbrock that has a kit with the ball stud and the kickdown lever stud. Oh, and before I forget, if the rear brakes have not been touched, you need to do that at the same time as the fronts. Keeping the rear shoes properly adjusted prevents the fronts from prematurely wearing out.
Uh, the Ford spreadbore and the GM spreadbores are different patterns and not interchangeable. Both the "bores" themselves but also the carburetor to manifold.
You can find new Holley carbs for about $250 at summitracing.com. I find they work fine even on a spread bore intake manifold. I just don't think rebuilding carbs is worthwhile anymore.
I use PJ1 motorcycle chain lube on my hood hinges. The stuff sprays in like a thin liquid and quickly congeals to a grease. It works well for door hinges as well. There are other similar brands available.
It's been a while since I had done any conversion, and I couldn't remember if the bolt patterns were the same or not, but I did mention some kind of separator plate, and there are plates that will put a Q-jet onto non-Q-jet intakes while giving the height for the mixture to get into the intake. But the reason you use a spreadbore is that the primaries have smaller primaries, for better cruise economy. Plus, using a Q-jet makes more sense parts-wise.
Not to jack the thread... but - I went through that mess - and just couldn't make it work. If I were going to change the carburetor I'd probably go with a Holley and change the intake manifold - but having been through several iterations on the Ranchero I've had the longest I've always ended up back with the 4300D and that has been the best overall performer in my car from a very good Carter AFB, to a Holley, to a Holley Projection fuel injection, to the 4350 and back to the 4300D. And with everything, mileage varies and god willin' and creek don't rise I'll try the next latest and greatest and will probably end up back the way Ford built the dang thang in the first place. Mike: Your list is ambitious but will be worthwhile! Good luck and best of skill with your project!!!
Q-Jet on a Pontiac 455 Super Duty is practically identical to a 70 / 71 429 CJ. I want to try MSD's injection system.
Yup, Q-Jet used on the 429 CJ - got a bone stock original intake manifold for that... need one??? I ended up swapping to the 429 SCJ manifold on Goldfish so I could use the squarebore pattern carbs - I'll let you know when I settle on which one - right now it is going to be the Holley that was running on it before the engine swap. The OP engine is a stock '73 351 CJ, which uses the FORD spreadbore pattern (different offset of the bores from the Q-Jet, and different bolt pattern for carb to manifold). I believe (and this is just my dumb, smelly, "out there" opinion) that Mike would happier either using what he has (the 4350) or, absent being able to rebuild the carb or finding someone good at rebuilding it, getting a box rebuild of the carburetor original to his application. I know, presumptuous of me to guess what Mike wants to do...
