A quick question RE: 460 PI engine

Discussion in 'General Automotive Questions' started by handy_andy_cv64, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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  2. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    I kind of like the cadence.
    I always figured it was due to pulling from a short runner, then a long one at the end of the firing order. You can hear it in the early Windsor and 385 engines but it isn't there on my 5.0 HO with the different firing order even though it is carbureted with an aluminum manifold and no exhaust crossover.
     
  3. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    No doubt ! When these engines were new on the lot I didn't have to pop the hood to tell if it was a 429 or 460. You could watch the front bumper and see that odd beat or just lay a finger on the front fenders and feel it. It's even more pronounced on the CJ and SCJ engines. Dad's 494 CanAm engine is really noticeable, you can hear it load up then clear out in an ear pleasing cycle.
     
  4. Dan the ranchero man

    Dan the ranchero man MODERATOR Staff Member

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    Yes the sweet sound of a 460! :)
     
  5. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    I was talking to Joe during today; he's trying to get all the tinware gaskets and front/rear main seals replaced, and he told me that after he'd drained the oil pan and dropped it, he found three scorpion carcasses in the pan. He thinks the former owner went to replace the rear main (There's dirty oil crunge all over the trans and underbody), and left the pan sitting on the ground when the scorpions wandered in, then died. Or the guy threw them in, one or the other.
     
  6. Dan the ranchero man

    Dan the ranchero man MODERATOR Staff Member

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    How does one NOT notice NOT one but THREE scorpions sitting in an oil pan that you are going to install on an engine? (He threw them in poor little suckers :( ).
     
  7. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    OK, fellow members, Joe finally has the engine installed and bolted down in his wagon; after fighting the back yard to try to get the engine in, he had to move the wagon to the garage, then unbolt the trans from the crossmember and remove the crossmember to get enough room to maneuver the engine mounts into place, and then maneuver the trans onto the engine to bolt it up. Remember, Joe has never done this before, has no help with him (I do what I can from 1200 miles away), but is solving his problems one by one.
    So, he has a couple 'future' questions: 1) the 'C' code 460 used an electric in-tank fuel pump, but Joe does not want to 'race' the Barge, so would a standard mechanical pump provide enough fuel, based on the cam that the 'C' code engine has? And 2) he wants to go with full dual exhaust, so what performance muffler would be good for a family wagon that isn't obnoxious and a basic conversation can be carried out inside the vehicle, what diameter piping would allow a HP increase without losing too much torque, and should the setup have a crossover pipe?
     
  8. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Don't know what racing has to do with the fuel pump, but in his application going mechanical will probably be easier as long as the eccentric in on the end of the cam.
    As to the exhaust, you have contradictory goals.
     
  9. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Yeah, I explained the 'give and take' nature of engines to him. His goal is better MPG. As for the fuel delivery, the interceptors with the 'C' engine were rated to do 140 MPH by the Michigan S.P., so in order to sustain 140 MPH for long periods of time, the engine needed a steady higher-pressure fuel pump than what a mechanical pump could do, hence the electric in-tank pump. But his question was, with the particular cam grind a 'C' engine has, will a standard mechanical pump suffice?
     
  10. 1965 Ranchero 66G

    1965 Ranchero 66G In Maximum Overdrive Unubtanium Member

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    Why not use a high volume electric fuel pump.
     
  11. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    He's thought of that, but as I said, he's not looking for big performance gains. He really only needs this engine to run correctly in normal driving until he has the original engine rebuilt. And, with three kids, money's an issue.
     
  12. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Standard fuel pump will work fine, just won't satisfy the requirements of sustained high RPM. Muffler-wise, Magnaflow would be an excellent choice, 2 1/4" to 2 1/2" is fine, but again, not enough for big RPM. I prefer an "X" pipe over a "H" for the reported torque improvement.
     
  13. 1965 Ranchero 66G

    1965 Ranchero 66G In Maximum Overdrive Unubtanium Member

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    Does it have a cover plate where the mechanical pump would go, if so take it off and feel for the eccentric for a mechanical pump. A high volume mechanical pump should be available.
     
  14. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    I have run high performance 460's on mechanical pumps with no problems. I prefer the electric because it is closer to the tank reducing the likelihood of line cavitation during hard acceleration, but some people don't like the sound the electric ones make.
    A good trick for lowering exhaust noise without increasing backflow is to use a glass pack as the cross pipe in an "H" setup.
     
  15. Dan the ranchero man

    Dan the ranchero man MODERATOR Staff Member

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    The mechanical pump should work fine. One of the rancheros I have has a PI engine in it and has been running a mechanical with no issues. I am running a 650 Vacuum secondary Holley with a duel exhaust 2 1/4 all the way back with just a cheap set of sheet metal wrapped type turbo mufflers and the stock exhaust manifolds. (NO H or X pipe) rear end gear is a 2.50 keeps the RPM's down and this car runs great (for cruising) Not race car but still pulls away from a light with no issues and is great on the high way. Over all average MPG is 15-17 MPG. For a 460 that is about as good as it gets.
     
  16. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Right. He wanted to test the engine before pulling it, so he was able to swap in the wagon's mech pump and it worked. So with the multiple assentions on that and the ideas on the exhaust, I think he'll do good. The only last questions will be the dial-ins on the ignition and carb, but that's for later.
     
  17. Dan the ranchero man

    Dan the ranchero man MODERATOR Staff Member

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    Carb leave it stock and just adjust it. I like running the timing @ 16-18 BTC and that should run well for him. I like to drive mine not have to tinker every weekend to make it run. So I am giving you what works for me so he can enjoy it.
     
  18. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    I'll make sure he saw your post.
     
  19. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Okay, so he's been poking at it lately, and he wants to rebuild the PI's carb (no cash available for a new, better carb). But, the carb tag is missing. The wagon's carb has its tag, so 1) are the two carbs close enough by application to use the wagon's carb on it, since a rebuild kit is available for it, and if the answer's no, is there a listing in the Ford parts catalog with the PI carb's numbers?
     
  20. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Also, if there's a Ford part # for the radiator overflow bottle.
     

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