A quick question RE: 460 PI engine

Discussion in 'General Automotive Questions' started by handy_andy_cv64, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    *shakes head* Man, I have pulled of some stupidity accidentally, but that takes the cake!
     
  2. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    That right there is impressive stupid on display. Back in the day you couldn't find a junkyard tank around here because they all went to replace tanks ruined by a Sheriff's installer. All the local Departments used the same guy. I bet he was sweating when he figured out his mistake on something like thirty cars.
     
  3. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    I'd be surprised if that didn't put him out of business. My biggest error, costing $5K to repair, was when I lifted a Chevy crew cab P/U, early '00s, in order to install shocks. The shop had steel I-beams holding up a flat roof, and the bays were oriented 90° to them, so in lifting any truck or van, you had to pay strict attention. Well, this one time, I didn't. And most of you know I stand tall, 6'6". I should've been fired when my boss told me about it, and I instantly felt 6.6" tall. But to just not pay attention all the time? That's a doozy. Joe commented that it was amazing the guy didn't blow himself and the car up; it's why I think the tank was nearly empty when this was done.
    Fortunately, the LTD will yield body sections and door skin pieces to repair the rust damage, and replace the trunk in toto.
     
  4. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

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    The same guy performing routine road service fixing a leaking fuel tank (an oldie but goodie, seen here before and rarely fails to get a "geeez" or two):

    10352043_10153342296292619_9039379064672685682_n.jpg

    I really like how he's welding on the fuel tank... and the rock wheel chock is a real plus!
     
  5. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Didn't break the guy. He had to sell his Ski Nautique boat to pony up for all those tanks. Kept working on Law Enforcement cars too but he got a serious lesson. It was kinda' weird, I was poised to swoop in and buy up a bunch of those Interceptors but people came in from all over the South and out bid me by a bunch. Crap ! I didn't get another chance to buy some of those Crown Vics until the 94's were de-commissioned. $600 each if I took the lot of them, still have a few that still run. Most are still on duty as Mail Carrier cars on the local routes. I know a couple of them run 300 miles daily. New brake pads monthly is normal.
     
  6. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    So, today is when we put on the new rear brakes (fronts are good for now), bleed the brakes, and tomorrow, move it around front to swap the engine from the LTD to the Galaxie.
     
  7. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Update:

    So, we got the Galaxie 'round to the driveway just as COVID restrictions hit, so no Code Enforcement inspectors. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Anyway, we swapped the engine and necessary parts from the Large Thirsty Dog (ugh, a police car with a 351M-2V!) and she now runs and more or less drives. We're just waiting on the lifting of COVID restrictions to inspect and license it.
    We're getting ready to tear down the PI 460 for bad head gaskets, as the cooling passages are corroded out, and get the heads and manifolds to a local machine shop for cleaning, inspection and milling flat. Since we're running it in his '73 Colony Park, it won't have an electric fuel pump, just a mechanical one, and we're debating if we should just stick with the factory 4-bbl or find another carb that'll handle this 460.
     
  8. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    That 78 PI 460 in the Mercury came with a square bore 730 cfm vacume secondary dual line Holley. Has a mechanical pump like normal, no egr or cats. Electric choke along with the heat stove pipes to the intake manifold. I have no idea of what size the jet sizes are in it. No return fuel line.
     
  9. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Okay, and was that factory? We are looking at saving the original carbs for rebuilding, down the road, and using a square-bore Holley, even an '80s truck Motorcraft 4150 could work, provided it was jetted right. But since yours is a dual-line carb, we might have to go aftermarket.
     
  10. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Andy, it did come from Ford like that, but understand it was ordered by Dad, probably checking boxes only a few knew could be marked. How did he get around emissions ? From what I gather the common intakes were set up for spreadbore carbs that were junk after a short while. That started around 1975 I think. Also they had a crap aluminum plate under the carb for the egr that was prone to burning out. Not on this engine. Only concession I see is the vacume valve on the thermostat neck that let's the vacume advance have intake vacume when the engine is nearing overheating.
     
  11. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Well, now I know what I'm looking for. And the spacers on both 460's are cast iron, so less of a problem there.
     
  12. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    So! We got the heads, intake and exhaust manifolds into the machine shop last week, and picked them up yesterday. Now begins the daunting task of finding everything for the engines, separate it all out so that each gets the proper parts. I have a couple questions, as both may be 460s, but they have different heads, cams, etc.

    1) I know the pushrods will be different, owing to the cam specs, and possibly valve differences, but are the rockers and fulcrums the same between PI and standard 1973 460s?

    2) There are two types of head bolts, one with standard hex heads, and the other with flanged hex heads. Would the flanged head bolts be for the PI engine?

    3) Do the intakes use three studs per side? Or three only one side, two on the other?

    4) I have yet to look at the intake gaskets, but if there are heat passage block-off plates, since this is South Texas, will I have warm-up problems if I blocked both passages? Usually, on EGR engines, at least one's blocked, the other is restricted, but as this is not supposed to have an EGR, will blocking both affect cold warm-up?
     
  13. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

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    #1) Pushrods should be 8.55" +/- in length. Rockers are pedestal/fulcrum mount style after '71, PI or not. Kinda like the early CJ/SCJ rockers. I have used 8.67" -8.70" pushrods(early 429/460 pushrods) in same engine to set .030" lifter pre-load, it depends on block height, block/head machining and head gasket thickness.
    #2) 460 head bolts have integral flange/washer built into the bolt, may need to post pics of different HB's(460 head bolts can be re-used-they are very good quality bolt)
    #3) 3 studs per side, one at each corner and one "centered" on each side.
    #4) I use LPG (Felpro MS 96044)"bathtub" intake gasket which totally blocks off heated crossover, no problem here in central Florida. Really keeps the hot oil splash off of underside of intake and the blocked crossover helps with vapor lock issues. You can drill a 5/16" hole in the gasket's block off which would give you kind of a middle ground between cold weather warm up and blocking some of the heat when fully warmed up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  14. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    OK, I'll get pics in a short while, post them. The heads were kissed, and the head gaskets should be standard Fel-Pro. As for the intake gaskets, I need to look, Joe bought them.
    .030" lifter preload? Unless the piston has double that travel, wouldn't the tappets bottom before they reach maximum lobe lift? Not to mention, excessive lobe/tappet wear?
     
  15. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Andy, typically hydraulic lifters will have .110 - .120 piston travel when dry, but need some preload to keep the lifter in contact with the cam at all RPM's. Once there's oil in them, they shouldn't collapse. As was stated, .030 is normal, but anything between .020 and .060 is acceptable. They make shims that go under the fulcrum in various thicknesses.
     
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  16. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Hmmm. I can see your point, but honestly, I've never encountered it. The few I've dealt with as full rebuilds, the machine shop would just order new push rods. So, I learned something new.
     
  17. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    And, photo of partial sets of head bolts, from last night:

    PSX_20200621_104843.jpg

    The long line of bolts, the right half were exposed to high heat and slight rusting, which means they were under the exhaust manifolds. And two are missing. The others are only a half-set, so I need to find the rest.
     
  18. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    So the LTD (Large Thirsty Dog) was stripped fully and disposed of this morning. We now have the parts to begin resto on the Bear. Cylinder heads and valve train will get installed tomorrow. And we decided, like the Bear, the 'Butterscotch Barge' will get Duraspark ignition. I just need to source a harness, dizzy, and module; we replaced the starter solenoid, which now has the 'I' terminal.
     
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  19. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Are you just checking to see if anyone is paying attention? How did your 460 head bolts get under the manifolds? Was the boat upside down? :D
     
  20. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    As you can tell, I'm a Windsor guy. These were 'next to' the exhaust ports, not underneath the manifolds.
     

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