Anyone added a 4 speed toploader or bw t10

Discussion in 'Ranchero Tech Help' started by Preal, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. Preal

    Preal In Second Gear

    Messages:
    82
    I've got everything on my ranchero up and running and am now turning my attention to the powertrain.

    The 289 runs great but will be removed at somepoint to clean up and paint the engine bay. The only issue I have is that I'm a tall guy and 3rd gear on the column shift hits my leg. (Not just touches but down with a lot of pressure.)

    I crawled under the car last night with the hopes of installing a floor shifter from a 66 mustang 3 speed toploader. As it turns out the tailshaft housing doesnt even have the provision on the end of the tailshaft housing to bolt the shifter to the transmission. When I bought the 66 mustang a borg warner t-10 4 speed came with the car. It is really rough and looks like some water has mixed with the oil but I'm pretty sure with a little cleaning it will be good to go. The t-10 even has the shifter in the forward location on the tailshaft housing that would have been stock in a falcon or fairlane.

    Has anyone put a 4 speed floor shifted manual in a 66 or 67 ranchero?

    Should I just put a universal floor shifter on the 3 speed in the 66?
     
  2. kirksss32

    kirksss32 In Overdrive

    Messages:
    663
    Location:
    michigan
    if your that tall... just lower the seat.:rolleyes:
     
  3. Sparkes442

    Sparkes442 In Second Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Martinez, CA
    I put a 4-speed toploader in my 1966 ranchero. there is a mounting plate thast allows a hurst competition plus shifter and backup light switch to be installed. Here are some photos.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Preal

    Preal In Second Gear

    Messages:
    82
    Do you have a picture of where it comes up through the floor?

    I see that you used the mounting taps at the forward location on the tailshaft housing. I'm tryin to get an idea what would happen if you moved it rearward.
     
  5. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

    Messages:
    19,727
    Location:
    California
    You short guys don't understand.
    Lowering the seat raises the knee and moves the top of the leg rearward as the seat now has to move forward as the top is blocked by the rear window.
    There is little room under the steering wheel as it is, so lowering the seat would mean driving splayed leg and not being able to get it into first without getting out of the car.
     
  6. kirksss32

    kirksss32 In Overdrive

    Messages:
    663
    Location:
    michigan
    lowering the seat dose not mean you have to move it forward,, it set,s at the same angle , just lower..ive done it before on a few cars an trucks for people.
     
  7. Preal

    Preal In Second Gear

    Messages:
    82
    I'm not lowering the seat. That was helpful in my 65 mustang but there. Is no easy way to lower the seat.

    I'm wondering where a mustang toploader would come up the tunnel. Also thinking I may just add a cheap and easy 3 speed shifter... My T10 is pretty nasty!
     
  8. Hawghead

    Hawghead In Second Gear

    Messages:
    26
    I bought my 65 with a BW T-10 already in it. According to the VIN this was the transmission that the car came with new. When I bought it, it had the stock shifter. Now these shifters were pieces of junk when they were new let alone after almost 50 years of use. The P/O said he had rebuilt the shifter but as I was taking it out all these balls and springs were falling out.

    I replaced it with a Hurst Competition Plus I found on Ebay. B/W made several styles of the T-10. (See the transmission ID chart at http://www.hurst-shifters.com/wp-content/uploadsHurstCatalog_web.pdf The one stock in the 65 Ranchero was the type 412 with the shifter mounting location on the tailshaft housing very far forward right up against the main body of the transmission. I'm thinking they did this so the shifter would clear a bench seat without putting a notch in the seat bottom. Unfortunately this did two things. It moves the shifter so far forward that you really have to lean forward to shift it and second, because the shifter is so far forward on the transmission it moved the shifter quite a bit towards your right knee. Now the stock shifter is so short that it doesn't come above the top of the seat, so it being shoved over to the left doesn't really create a problem. (The shifter ball is basically under your right knee in second gear.)

    Now comes the tricky part. Each Hurst shifter has a specific "adapter/installation" kit that allows the shifter to bolt up to specific transmissions, the one for the type 412 is Hurst part # 3733164. Hurst no longer stocks this kit but you can still find them on ebay or at some of the online performance parts stores. A word of caution, call the store and verify they actually have it in stock. And now the final issue. The Hurst shifter and it's shift handle are going be be taller and moved even farther to the left than the stock shifter. This is because the installation kit has about a 1 inch thick block of aluminum that bolts to the transmission which is drilled to have the shifter bolted to it. This is going to put the shifter knob right about knee level and so far to the left that you have to have a Z bend in your right leg to use second gear.

    There is still hope however. Hurst also makes several styles of shifter handles and fortunately they are universal to all Hurst Competition Plus and Super shifters. I currently have one on order that comes out of the shifter mechanism makes a 90 deg. right bend, goes over almost four inches then makes another 90 bend straight up. Additionally this shifter handle should be about 4" taller than the current one so as to put the shifter ball above my knee. It should show up here sometime this week. When I get it installed I'll let you know how it worked out.

    Finally Hurst makes two three speed shifters. One a universal called the Indy SSA shifter and the Master shift 3 speed shifter. If you decide on keeping the three speed one of these might work. Oh and one last word. Seeings as you already have the 4 speed not in the car, I'd recommend you take it to a good transmission shop and have them take a look at it. Unless they tell you it's good to go, you'll be much time, money and trouble ahead if you have them go through it now rather than go to all the trouble to get it installed then find out the synchronizers and bearings are shot.

    Scott
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2012
  9. Preal

    Preal In Second Gear

    Messages:
    82
    Scott,

    Thanks for the info. The inside of my t10 looks like this....
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    So I may end up changing directions a little...

    If the shifter was moved back 8 inches do you think it would be a problem? I've got a mustang 3 speed that would bolt in and allow for me to move the shifter to the floor and back 8 inches from the stock floor location.

    Parker
     
  10. 5.0 Chero

    5.0 Chero Bahumbug Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,193
    Location:
    Prunetucky California
    If it were mine I would go for a T5 5 speed swap...........
     
  11. Preal

    Preal In Second Gear

    Messages:
    82
    That may be an easier option. I did the conversion in my 65 mustang and it was super easy...

    I just like the idea of using a 4 speed. I may take a stab at cleaning it up to see what it looks like under all the crud.
     
  12. Torkair

    Torkair In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,078
    Location:
    Tucson, Az
    Simple green will take the sludge right off of those parts but once they're clean hit them with some sort of oil or they will flash rust. The Rancheros and Mustangs of the mid 60s had very very similar floor pans so you should have the same ease of swapping parts in the 'Chero as you did with the Mustangs (although doing stuff inside the cab may be a little difficult since it's a LOT smaller).

    Good luck and take tons of pictures!
     
  13. RANCHEROROB

    RANCHEROROB In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,662
    Location:
    Pueblo de Los Angeles, Aztlan
    The pedal and Z bar set up is hard to find and not cheap when you do find one
     
  14. Preal

    Preal In Second Gear

    Messages:
    82
    I already have the clutch and z bar setup because my Chero is an original 3 on the tree car.

    I'll try some degreaser this evening. If everything cleans up ok I may have to drill and tap my toploader bell housing to take this thing.
     
  15. Hawghead

    Hawghead In Second Gear

    Messages:
    26
    Parker,

    What you've got there is a transmission that got a bunch of water in it, probably from sitting around out in the weather. While it looks nasty it doesn't mean there was any damage done. Even full of water the gear lube may have still protected the parts from damage due to rust or corrosion. Like I said the best thing to do is to take is to a good transmission shop and have them take a look at it. They can tell if the parts are worn and need to be replaced. For cleaning it out I'd try to find somewhere or someone that had a solvent parts cleaner.

    As for the T-5 option, In my opinion you'd be better off with that if for no other reason you get all the advantages of the 4 speed with the addition of an overdrive for fuel mileage. I've looked into doing the conversion on my 65 and the thing that's stopping me is having to convert to a hydraulic clutch. As I understand it the stock clutch linkage won't work with the T-5.

    On the shifter location, the problem with mine is due mostly to the fact that the forward mounting location moves the shifter away from the centerline of the transmission. On a transmission that has the shifter mounted way back on the tailshaft housing the shifter is almost on the centerline of the tranny which give more knee room. I've converted a number of 60's type muscle cars from automatics to four speeds and my Ranchero was the only one that gave me knee room problems. Also yours is a 66 and my not have an issue. Do you have bucket seats or a bench?

    Scott
     
  16. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    8,491
    Location:
    near SF
  17. Preal

    Preal In Second Gear

    Messages:
    82
    I tore the tranny down this afternoon any it is in much better shape then I expected. I imagine that this tranny just sat outside for a long time.

    That being said, I am degreasing all the parts and plan on putting it back together. The only issue I see is needing to drop the bell housing with the tranny to drill and tap the holes for the t10. It already has holes in the bell housing but they are not large enough.

    I've done the t5 on my 65 mustang and it wa a breeze. I really want to stick with the t10 because it is not that common and I already have everything it will take to make it work.
     
  18. Sparkes442

    Sparkes442 In Second Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Martinez, CA
    The 66 Ranchero's have a removable floor plate "top" that fits over the bigger hole in the trans hump. This top plate allows access to the shifter assembly and has provisions to screw in the shifter boot. This is the same plate as found in 1966 Fairlanes. I've seen them on eBay or you might contact Matt Murphy at MnMSFalcons mnmsfalcon@yahoo.com He has a ton of parts and helped me with a lot of pieces for my 1966 Ranchero
     
  19. Preal

    Preal In Second Gear

    Messages:
    82
    The problem with the t5 swap is the shifter location. The mustang t5 shifter is in the same spot as the 65-66 mustang shifter which will be really close to the bench seat. I believe you would need an s10 tailshaft for the tranny to make it work.

    That being said, the t10 looks to be in pretty good shape. I've been cleaning it up with degreaser and and am now in the process of getting it back together. Need toget a gasket set ordered!i may have to replace the front bearing as well...
     
  20. Preal

    Preal In Second Gear

    Messages:
    82
    I'm thinking I may just go with a t5. I can sell the t10 for at least the price of the adapter to use my original bellhousing. I can upgrade the tranny in my mustang and put that one in my ranchero.
     

Share This Page