Capacitor Charging

Discussion in 'Car and Home Audio' started by parts4me, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. parts4me

    parts4me In Maximum Overdrive

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    Alright so I have read the instructions on how to do this and looked it up online but have a few clarification questions on it.

    1. I know you use a resistor on it, is a 1k one enough?
    2. Are you supposed to do this on your car battery, as replace the fuse you would use on the power line with the resistor, or should I use another source?
    3. This might be dumb, but the capacitor stores the charge until I hook it up for good correct? I am assuming so.


    On a side note does anyone know a good substitute for something like dynamat? I want some sort of padding to put under the carpet where the sub is going so it doesn't vibrate on the metal.

    Thanks all.
     
  2. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

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    Alright so I have read the instructions on how to do this and looked it up online but have a few clarification questions on it.

    1. I know you use a resistor on it, is a 1k one enough?
    2. Are you supposed to do this on your car battery, as replace the fuse you would use on the power line with the resistor, or should I use another source?
    3. This might be dumb, but the capacitor stores the charge until I hook it up for good correct? I am assuming so. >parts4me

    +++++++++++++++

    What sort of capacitor? What is it used for?

    Can't tell much from your questions -- there are little noise suppression capacitors, and there are large farad-size capacitors that people use on their audio systems -- guessing that's what you have?

    Be VERY careful not to short the output terminals on it when it has a charge. If that's what you have, take it to an audio installer who will know how to do it safely.

    You can think of a capacitor as a sort of storage battery. They can explode if overheated suddenly, as for example when the outputs are shorted together.

    More info needed. Maybe a link to where you got your info.
     
  3. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

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    As RancheroUS, stated you should have received the resistor required to properly charge the capacitor. I have used sound deadener from Audiotechnix.com and it is freaking awesome. I bought 25ft roll of the 80 mil version and it almost completely covered the floor boards in my '79 Ranchero. It uses butyl adhesive instead of a foul smelling asphalt based adhesive. The butyl adhesive is aggressive to say the least, you better want it where you place it because it ain't coming up easily. I used a roller to push the adhesive in every little crevice and a heat gun when I wanted to(but definitely not needed). I believe this deadener is the best value out there. Check Youtube and decided for yourself. I hope this helps, Todd

    [​IMG]
     
  4. 5.0 Chero

    5.0 Chero MODERATOR Staff Member

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  5. Rancherous

    Rancherous Administrator Staff Member

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    Nope because I aint no slim pickens myself ;)
     
  6. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Well Carl, you did put in an airbag suspension cuz 1/2 ton wasn't stout enough;)
     
  7. HuevosRanchero

    HuevosRanchero In Maximum Overdrive

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    OUCH! ;););)..
     
  8. parts4me

    parts4me In Maximum Overdrive

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    Thanks, That is everything I needed to know.
     
  9. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

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    The resistor charges it no need for a power source, simply touch the ends of the resistor to the + and - of the Cap. >RancheroUS

    ++++++++++++++

    Uhmmm ... guessing what that means is to connect the - side of the cap to ground, and the + side of the cap through the resistor to battery +.

    Are those caps left permanently across the battery when installed, or fed through a relay, or ?? How long will one hold a charge when disconnected?
     
  10. parts4me

    parts4me In Maximum Overdrive

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    I don't plan on charging it until ready for install. Just wondered if I had to throw it on the system right away or if I had time to fiddle with it.
     
  11. Rancherous

    Rancherous Administrator Staff Member

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    What are you installing amp wise etc in the car.

    I can't stress enough to get good OFC wire for your install. Its pricy but worth it or if you are a Welder some nice copper welding cable is also good but not as flexible. Do it right the first time ;)

    Here is Some of the stuff and connections for my last system, cost a ton but well worth it.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

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    BB The resistor will have a red and a black side. You SIMPLY connect the Red side of the resistor to the positive and Black side to the negative ON THE CAP leave it for 10 minutes or whatever time is recommended by the manufacturer and then when you put your DMM on the Cap and it will say like 12-14.4 volts. Nothing more is needed until you hook up the battery and amp to it.

    Don't want to cause confusion here for the poster. >R.US

    +++++++++++++++

    No, nor do I -- but how does a resistor charge the capacitor? Without it being connected to some current source?? And a resistor with positive and negative terminals? Missing something important here, that 'resistor' sounds more like a small battery pack.

    That sounds like a procedure to drain charge from the cap, would be if we were talking about a regular capacitor in some other electronic device.

    Please take a look at this page and tell me if it's what you are talking about? http://www.caraudiohelp.com/car_audio_capacitor_installation/car_audio_capacitor_installation.htm

    The wiring diagrams at the bottom show it hooked up the way I suggested above to do the initial charging.
     
  13. parts4me

    parts4me In Maximum Overdrive

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    DAMN. Someone installed some toys! I am using 8 gauge wiring. As for an amp it is just a 1400 watt 2 channel. I am only putting in one 12 inch kicker. I'll post pics when I start. Gotta get the back compartment area cleaned up first.
     
  14. Rancherous

    Rancherous Administrator Staff Member

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    BB you are CORRECT. I am guessing he does not have the same kind as I do. Most as I remember now do not come with the charged resistor.

    Parts sent you the link for the process for the type you probably have. Step by step with pics.

    Use at least 4 GA wire and you will be happy, 8GA is kind of small and you will have it there if you ever want to add on. Do not look at peak power but RMS power, peak power is a marketing scam to lure kids into thinking they have a million watts when in actuality they have 500.
     
  15. Rancherous

    Rancherous Administrator Staff Member

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    Kind of a Mid Life Crisis build there. Wanted a really clean no distortion set up in my cruiser.

    Head Unit: JVC Navi Unit KW-NT3HDT
    Amp: MMATS 4065 65 RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms 130x4 RMS @ 2 ohms
    Sub Amp MMATS D-300HC 1748 RMSx1
    Subs: Eclipse 1000 RMS X 2
    Speakers: Blaupunkt Velocity series 150 RMS x 4
    Big 3 Upgrade with 2 extra grounds in 0 GA OFC
    200A Police Package Motorcraft Alternator
    Sears Die Hard Platinum Battery
    Phonex Gold AKIT-1 and matching Negative terminal
    Boss add on Video monitor for the rear seat passengers

    Next build will be in my new truck when I get it, going to do an iPad 3 install with a few amps and an Audison Bit 1 or JBL MS-8
     
  16. parts4me

    parts4me In Maximum Overdrive

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    Thanks for the link, that way makes more sense to me.

    I'll have to take a look at the RMS stuff and make sure I have what I want.

    Thanks for everyone's help.
     
  17. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    BB the resistor is used to charge the capacitor as otherwise the inrush current will blow just about any fuse you put in front of it, and could damage the cap.
    The resisters are labeled pos and neg to make the installation instructions simpler for novices. Just as the capacitors are.
    Also, I agree on the #4 wire.
    If the amp really is 1400 watts, the max current will be over 110 amps plus the capacitor draw when it operates. Most inexpensive '1400W' amps only draw 60 or 65 A. If the manufacture re recommends a #8 wire, it is really a 500W amp. The 1200W Infinity amp I am running the speakers on requires a #4, and the 1600W bass Amp requires a #2.
    Don't forget that the speaker wire has to be sized correctly also. You need to know the output voltage of the amp to calculate the wire size..
     
  18. burninbush

    burninbush In Maximum Overdrive

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    BB the resistor is used to charge the capacitor as otherwise the inrush current will blow just about any fuse you put in front of it, and could damage the cap.
    The resisters are labeled pos and neg to make the installation instructions simpler for novices. Just as the capacitors are. >ribald

    ++++++++++++++++

    I know what it's for, I'm the MSEE in this crowd. Where were you when our mod was trying to tell us about using polarized resistors to charge it?

    The reason to charge it up slowly the first time is to 'form' it -- does stuff to the electrolyte inside. When it's in use, it wouldn't be much good if it could not be reloaded as quickly as the amp can deplete it.

    Electrolytic caps are polarized, resistors are not. @parts4me, be very careful not to hook the cap up backwards; + terminal on the cap goes to battery +, minus to ground.
     
  19. parts4me

    parts4me In Maximum Overdrive

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    Don't worry I'll make sure to hook everything up correctly. I don't wanna blow something out or up due to lack of reading symbols. Here is another question, at what point would someone want to up the alternator? I am sure I won't need to swap it out on this upgrade but for the future add-ons who knows.
     
  20. Rancherous

    Rancherous Administrator Staff Member

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    It honestly depends a lot on how much your current alternator puts out and how many RMS you are going to run.

    With the set up I am running I had a 130A alternator and had to up it to 200A. But that is over 2,000 RMS.

    If you post what kind of amp you are going to run we can pull true specs of it.

    If you have some amp like a Sony Explode it will say 1,400 PEAK watts and is truly like 400 RMS which is constant power. Like I said before its to get Kids to buy it. It may do 1,400 watts bridged at 1 ohm for a millisecond on full gain and the distortion would blow your speakers. Remember distortion blows speakers clean power does not. Sony used to make some real nice stuff in the early 90s but has went downhill in a BIG way.

    There are also old school American amps that kids look at and Laugh they say like 300W, my Sony Xplode will put out 1,400. Back in the early 90s competition car audio was big and many companies went head to head and way under rated their amps like HiFonics, Orion, Phoenix Gold etc. They would rate their power at 12V now your car at idle or cruising will put out 14.4 Volts so the 300 watts is almost doubled and they lied about the true wattage so they could win competitions. I have a few of these amps still around and they will pretty much outperform anything these days. There are a still some companies making nice stuff these days but you are going to pay for it Audison, Simphony ,MMATS etc.

    There was a Big sell off in the late 90s to the Chinese, most all American car audio companies cashed out. Now their products are junk.

    Now you can buy different amps to conserve on power by looking at the Class of the amp. Class A/B will suck the most power, Class D less and the newer class G/H even less.

    Ohms also play a role in power drain, the lower the ohm you run the more power it will consume. Some amps will say 1 ohm stable but not be able to run it, Kicker is notorious for this.

    Here is an example:

    http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_23326_Sony-Xplod-XM-GTR2202.html

    RMS 220 x 2 @ 4 ohms so that is 440 watts RMS true power. That is a far cry from 1,400 watts.

    See my point :D

    Hope this post helped you a bit.
     

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