Drum brake question

Discussion in 'Ranchero Tech Help' started by Minotaur, Sep 19, 2021.

  1. Minotaur

    Minotaur In Third Gear

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    It appears the right rear brakes are rubbing as there's a slight vibration above 60 mph, that and the last time I drove it I could smell the super heated shoes and the wheel was too hot to touch.
    So I looked at it today, and it appears to be manually adjusted only. My question is; Is the return spring on the bottom supposed to have the adjustment wheel in the coils?
    You can see it's kind of on top of the wheel. And the shoes are mounted correctly, short shoe in the front, long shoe on the back.
    I backed off the adjustment a little, but in the course of fiddling around with it, I lost some fluid through the wheel cylinder so haven't driven it yet as I will have to bleed that brake.
    Just curious if the wheel is supposed to engage the spring. Thanks. IMG_20210918_183441160.png
     
  2. thebruins

    thebruins In Third Gear

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    I doubt it would be engineered like that: when you apply the brake like this it might turn the star wheel. What year?
    My car has the automatic adjustment setup, so hopefully someone else can confirm.
     
  3. Boiler92

    Boiler92 In Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Here's a good video on rear drum brakes. I used it as a reference when I did mine since most of the parts had been removed by the previous owner.

     
  4. Boiler92

    Boiler92 In Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    I'm not a brake expert and mine is a 5 lug but you don't seem to have all the parts I have in my 69. Mine is like in the video I linked above.
     
  5. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    I am a technician, and yes, you are missing a bunch of very important parts. One, you need the proper hardware kit that will supply those parts, and that kit should have all the parts for both sides, and the sides should mirror each other. Second, if you lost fluid from the wheel cylinder, it has a compromised internal seal. There should be NO fluid inside either outer dust boot. You can replace them if you can find correct ones, or rebuild these, if you can find correct rebuild kits. You'd need a small brake hone tool and a variable speed drill to do the rebuild.
     
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  6. Minotaur

    Minotaur In Third Gear

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    Thanks all for the responses.
    It's a '63 and I believe, after a little web research that, that is what a manually adjusted drum brake looks like, at least that's what I've been led to believe anyways LoL.
    There's a cross bar with a spring on one end behind the axle and the parking brake pieces are there and hidden as well.
    After bleeding both rear drums today I noticed a little trickle of fluid from the problem wheel. After pulling the springs on the shoes I discovered that yesterday I managed to lose one of those little rubber piston cups that goes under the piston. I have a rebuild kit like the one Andy mentioned on order, hopefully that will allow me to drive it safely to see if the changes I made in adjustment will have eliminated the rub.
    I have to fix my error first to fix the original issue, ugh!
    Pic of a diagram of a similar rear drum, seems odd but I've seen other pics on the web that are similar. I'll update once I get the new piston cup in.
    U3nqOc5.png
     
  7. plumcolr

    plumcolr In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Looks like a non-self adjusting. I thought 63's had that, it came in some time in the late '50s. At any rate here's a pic of the adjuster kit, about $8 a wheel
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    One important difference between manual adjusted and auto adjusted drum brakes. On manual adjusters, the lower spring between the two shoes also serves to hold the star wheel in whatever position you leave it after adjustment. With auto adjusters, the lower spring does not contact the star wheel, only the adjuster lever touches the star wheel. For what it's worth, I have found manual adjusters on Custom 300's as new as 1970. That is the lowest buck full size you could buy back then. The earliest auto adjusters I have found were on a 1960 full size Fairlane.
     
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  9. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Ah, yes, as always, you bring the straight skinny! It's been so long since I've touched brakes that old, that I forgot they're not self-adjusting, and the the same arrangement is up front. Since so many opt to install disc brakes up front, can the rears be updated with drum brakes that have the self-adjust feature, and still work with the P-brake cables?
     
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  10. Minotaur

    Minotaur In Third Gear

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    Ah thank you, this is the information I was seeking. So it is set up correctly, just probably out of adjustment.
    I don't mind having to adjust them occasionally, if it's too difficult through the little access window on the back of the hub I'll just take the wheel off and remove the drum as I've done with this wheel.
    And I found the little piston cup that's missing from the left side of the wheel cylinder under the car yesterday, just have to find time to finish it up now LoL.
    Thanks all again.
     
  11. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Sure can Andy. Just need the correct hardware kit and make sure the shoes have the corresponding holes to match the hardware.
     
  12. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    I see one potential problem in your brake photo. There is a plate that goes under the springs at the top mounting pin that keeps the shoes from getting out of alignment. It needs to be there before the upper springs go on.
     
  13. Minotaur

    Minotaur In Third Gear

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    Location:
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    I noticed that too, guide plate in the diagram. That may be why that wheel rubs, one of the shoes gets crooked after braking and doesn't realign until I back up or something.
    I wonder if I could use a guitar pick or something with a hole drilled in it?
     
  14. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Nix on the pic. There is a lot more force there than a pic could restrain. Time to investigate the donor again. Looks like you are getting a crash course in automotive design. Let it all sink in and smile, any time you get discouraged think of the hourly rate you'd be forking out if you had to take your Ranchero to a shop. And a bonus is you are gaining an education no body can take away.
     
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  15. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Yep, save the guitar pick for the banjo you built- picks aren't up to the task inside a brake system.
     
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  16. Minotaur

    Minotaur In Third Gear

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Success! I was able to pick up a couple of guide plates from NAPA. Worked on it today, missing left side piston cup in, guide plate on, bled again, no leaks, and took it for a test drive.
    All seems well, and stops as good as four wheel drum brakes normally do, and no red hot wheel from a rubbing brake.
    Thanks for the advice and tips, total cost was a bottle of brake fluid and $2 for the guide plates, which gives me a spare, and no loss of guitar picks (I play claw-hammer style @beerbelly )
    Notice how far the jack stand sunk in the dirt after a week of use.
    IMG_20210925_145143805.png IMG_20210925_171302996.png
     
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  17. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    That's why I have a couple 16" squares of 3/4" plywood, to keep that from happening. A former friend once had a car fall off the stands years ago, from that very problem. Oh, and his cheapo stands were 3-legged anyway....
     
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  18. plumcolr

    plumcolr In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Welded 1-1/2 inch straps across the bottom of mine so they wouldn't dig into the asphalt driveway. Might slow them down on dirt but wouldn't stop them from sinking.
     
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