Grounding location pic 429/460

Discussion in 'General Automotive Questions' started by landyacht, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. landyacht

    landyacht In First Gear

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    Ok, as the title suggests can anyone take pictures of the location where the grounding points are for this engine?
    I have mine as battery negative cable to passenger side head, and firewall cable to passenger side head... I'm not sure if theres another thats missing or not... But when cranking engine over it spins slow and its a fresh battery 12.65 on the voltmeter.
    Also possibly unrelated the horns stopped working, they made a wierd honk kind of soft and loud warble then died... They're receiving power so the relay and switch are working.
    Funny how you install an engine and things get wierd...
     
  2. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    No pic but the primary ground directly from the battery is located on the block. There is a lug for this just below the head surface toward the front passenger's side of the block. Sticks out behind the alternator. The body ground sounds like it is where it normally located , rear of the passenger side head. Horns from that era are notorious for giving up the ghost especially with long periods of no use. You might get lucky and revive them with a whack from a piece of two by four but most times you just need to replace them. An aside, if you have cruise control there will be a horn relay located on the cruise electronics box near the firewall near the base of the steering column, no cruise = no relay in the horn system wiring. Be gentle on those wires, they're ancient in automotive years and probably easily damaged. Too much advance on the ignition timing can cause slow cranking too. Battery cables in good condition ?
     
  3. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    The open voltage of the battery means very little, actually fully charged it should be 13V or better.
    Cranking voltage is the important one. If cranking voltage drops below 9V you either have a bad battery or bad starter.
     
  4. landyacht

    landyacht In First Gear

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    No ground to frame cable?
     
  5. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Nope. Wasn't anything electrical mounted to the frame originally. Some police depts. added a frame ground later along with a hood and trunk lid bonding strap in the intent of increasing the ground plane for their radios. Newer Crown Vic P-71's came with the bonding straps if you want to add some.
     
  6. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    if you want to reduce corrosion, bond your radiator also.
     
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  7. 1965 Ranchero 66G

    1965 Ranchero 66G In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Does that include aluminum radiators, what about dissimilar metals. ?
     
  8. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Exactly.
    Bonding around dissimilar metals, when done properly, prevents dielectric corrosion, and that is the most common form of corrosion in a cooling system.
    Copper and steel/iron don't have huge problems with this, but aluminum does. That, and the requirements for the electronics, are why you see ground jumpers between almost everything on a modern car.
    Aluminum heads, intakes, radiators, water pumps, you name it, if it is aluminum you need to properly bond it. Properly bonding it is NOT just running a wire to it. The connector has to be AL rated and antioxidant has to be used on the connection.
    I bond around copper connections also. That green fuzz is copper wasting away reducing life, and the rust in the coolant is the same on the other side.
     
  9. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Now wait a minute. Ford factory ground cables have three major attachment points: block stud, frame (directly across from the block) and battery post.
     
  10. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Just an observation on cars I own = Town Cars from the 90's had bonding straps all over them. Not every car had all of them but the ones with the JBL stereos were most likely to be loaded with ground bonds. One on each tailpipe near the back bumper, one on the antenna housing, one on the transmission tail shaft case to the brace under the floor pan, trunk hinge, hood hinge, in each door harness, and a few had a strap on the heater core and radiator core which both were aluminum. A few had straps on the front upper "A" arms and an extension of the battery ground that went to the frame after bolting to the block at the bell housing. One car may have the bare minimum while the next is loaded. Remember GM's crappy body grounds that went under the valve cover bolts on the engines ? It was pitiful, lights flickering and stray current melting the shifter cables leaving you stranded in unsavory places.
     
  11. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Andy, that frame ground came in around the mid 70's. Have a look at late 60's and early 70's Fords, it was not there.
     
  12. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Quite a while back we had a discussion about this and plugs seizing on aluminum heads.
    Seems like increased bonding has made that issue disappear as I suspected it would due to what was done with early motorcycle aluminum heads.
    Now every coil over plug has it's own ground that bonds to the head, and as far as I know the problem has gone away.
     
  13. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly In Maximum Overdrive

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    Yes, had a coil on plug 5.4 four cam Navigator develop a miss due to a cracked coil case. Cut open the bad coil for fun and sure enough it had a ground strap built into the coil case using the mounting bolt on the valve cover ( metal covers ) to ground each coil. No thread problems like the earlier ones that had a plastic cover holding the coils compressed down onto the plugs.
     
  14. Basstrix

    Basstrix In Maximum Overdrive BRONZE MEMBER

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    Never heard of dielectric corrosion. Is this the same thing as galvanic corrosion?
     
  15. Basstrix

    Basstrix In Maximum Overdrive BRONZE MEMBER

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    Incidentally, you can protect your cooling system from galvanic corrosion by installing a sacrificial (typically zinc) anode.

    The zinc coating on galvanized fasteners is a sacrificial anode....it will eventually dissolve away...the rate is dependent on the galvanic index of metals in contact and the environment.

    The same goes for your water heater. The long life gas water heaters will have significantly more zinc in contact with the water. One can prolong the life of a water heater tank indefinitely by replacing the anodes before they have completely dissolved. Interestingly, a water softener will tend to shorten the life of a water heater...this is because the addition of salt to the water increases the conductivity of the water.
     
  16. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Dielectric corrosion occurs when dissimilar metals come in contact with each other. Dielectric corrosion involves transporting metal ions via electric currents as is done when plating.
     
  17. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Water heaters are required to be bonded for that reason, and to protect against shock should a pipe become energized.
    Water moving in a metal pipe generates electricity, just as any moving conductor does. That is why pipes are bonded together with copper straps at every fixture, to enhance current flow through the pipes rather than the water itself.

    As to the zinc, it takes a VERY long time to dissolve unless there are electric currents present.
     
  18. andrewok1

    andrewok1 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER GOLD MEMBER

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    my 72 has a ground to block and frame also a hood firewall spring strap ground and a strap firewall to block ,
    not being original owner some could have been added along the way , i do not think more grounding could hurt as much as less grounds
     
  19. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    See, that's what I figured. And based on what Hillbilly said about them coming in in mid-decade, it likely was either for the Duraspark ignitions or for cutting out generated noise.
     
  20. Basstrix

    Basstrix In Maximum Overdrive BRONZE MEMBER

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    From your description, it's identical to Galvanic Corrosion.
     

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