Ignition Switch

Discussion in 'General Ranchero Help' started by KAB, Dec 6, 2019.

  1. KAB

    KAB In Second Gear

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    My car cranks but doesn't fire until I back the key up a hair. It's like the timing of the switch is off. I've adjusted the switch on the column about a million times, but can't seem to find the sweet spot. Can the lock cylinder cause this phenomenon? Help please. 73 GT. It's got the bar that runs from gear shift to ignition switch. No neutral safety
     
  2. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,349
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    May want to try a new switch, the internal contacts may have spots of corrosion causing the issue.
     
  3. colnago

    colnago In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,101
    I had a similar issue last week, but mine is a '64, so the ignition switch is completely different. But I doubt it is the lock cylinder itself.
     
  4. KAB

    KAB In Second Gear

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    I've tried two different column switches. One came on the car the other I bought NOS. Same issue. Only thing I haven't tried is lock cylinder.
     
  5. 65restomod

    65restomod In Fourth Gear BRONZE MEMBER

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Danville,VT left NJ forever
    Does the lock cyl. spring back when released from the start position?
    Are you saying the electrical part of the switch has been swapped out?
     
  6. KAB

    KAB In Second Gear

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    Yes, the switch does spring back, but not with any force. I put on a NOS column/electrical switch to replace the original, but both have had the same issue.
     
  7. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    9,643
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    Something doesn't sound right. You need to ensure that the switch is correctly positioned. First, undo and remove the switch. Use a small screwdriver or punch to move the slider. You want it to be in the OFF-LOCK position; move it to the end opposite of the push-back spring. This puts it in ACC. move it toward the spring carefully, one click, to put it in the OFF-LOCK position. Then turn the lock cylinder to place it and the actuator into the OFF-LOCK position, and carefully reinstall the switch and its hold down nuts. Once that's done, if everything is correct, it should crank/fire in the START position. But since the switch uses one set of contacts, and one for full 12 volt power to the coil and ignition box. Make sure you inspect the connector, that all the wires are in and locked, and are not burned or broken inside.
     
  8. KAB

    KAB In Second Gear

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    It's got a Painless wiring harness so all the wires are new, but that doesn't mean the connections are 100% perfect. I've been trying to adjust it with the switch on just pushing it one way or the other. Thanks I will try it that way.
     
  9. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    9,643
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    You can also plug it in without it attached to the column, and rack the switch to make sure it correctly functions, but more to the point, that it isn't attempting to come apart.
     
  10. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,627
    Location:
    Chesapeake, VA
    I wonder if, with the painless wiring harness, that something in the wiring changed. Depending on the Ford Model, some used an additional ignition wire at the solenoid for exactly the problem you are describing - the red/green stripe wire was on the cranking terminal, and a red/blue stripe wire went on an extra terminal on the solenoid switch adjacent to the cranking signal terminal to power the ignition during cranking. IIRC, many Mustang, Maverick, Pinto, etc. of that era used that arrangement. Methinks your switch may be correct, but the wiring may have been designed "one size fits all" and you are missing the circuit to power ignition during cranking. Just a thought, YMMV.
     
  11. 5.0 Chero

    5.0 Chero Bahumbug Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,941
    Location:
    Prunetucky California
    Just saw this Dan is correct 73 got the 12v to the coil for start from the starter solenoid. From what I can tell the Painless Harness was designed around later Ford wiring that uses the switch to feed the coil 12v during cranking simple fix run a 14GA wire from the I terminal on starter sol. to the + side of the coil
     
  12. KAB

    KAB In Second Gear

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    Thanks all. I will check position of switch and wiring. My painless kit was for cars up to 74 or 75, but it was a one size fits all. There is no wire running from solenoid to coil. I should mention that there is no original wiring left in this car and painless used different circuitry than Ford. I know that the original wiring had a bunch of wires(8-12) going to the column switch, painless only has 4.
     
  13. KAB

    KAB In Second Gear

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    I was just digging through the original Ford wiring diagrams and the painless instructions. I didn't use a ballast resistor so I might have misunderstood the instructions and omitted the wire that runs from I terminal on solenoid to B+ on coil. Thanks everyone for the help. I will let you know later how it worked. Neighbor s get a bit testy when I start it at 8:30am
     
  14. KAB

    KAB In Second Gear

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    So I ran a wire from the solenoid I terminal to the B+ coil and it fired right up. Instruction for painless tell not to connect I terminal but to jump coil wire to ballast resistor bypass wire at column ignition switch. Are these accomplishing the same thing.
     
  15. colnago

    colnago In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,101
    It sounds like it's the same thing. My '67 has one circuit through the ignition switch to provide 12V to the coil during cranking. When the key is released and the switch moves to RUN, voltage goes through the ballast resistor, and voltage to the coil gets knocked down. When I converted to Pertronix, with a FlameThrower coil, the instructions said to bypass the ballast resistor, so the FlameThrower coil is always getting a full 12V.

    On edit, I would not bypass the ballast resistor on a stock coil.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
  16. 72GTVA

    72GTVA Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,627
    Location:
    Chesapeake, VA
    Wiring it up per the painless instructions seems like the way to go, clearly you need a source of power to the ignition during cranking. Glad you've identified the problem and can move on to the next issue.
     
  17. KAB

    KAB In Second Gear

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    I to have a pertronics ignition and no ballast resistor. It seems to have a slow crank initially wired to the solenoid. I may jumper the ignition switch tomorrow because the original solenoid didn't have an I terminal. Thanks everyone for the help.
     
  18. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    9,643
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    The 12 volts from the I terminal was only for point-condenser ignitions, like what was stock on your '73. So all you need is a 12 volt signal from the START position on the switch. For whatever reason, I thought your rig was '75 or newer, otherwise, I would've picked up on the missing 12 volts.
     

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