Is that about where we are? +++++++++++++ Yup, though there are still some questions to ponder. -- in the three cases that I've personally touched, the radiator survived undamaged -- I expected that to have been the first element to fail. Is it possible those tubes can expand enough to contain the larger volume? -- I can't get myself to believe that the entire volume of water inside a motor+radiator would freeze solid at the same instant -- there would have to be a transition period when it is slushy and able to redistribute to some degree. -- which reminds me, not all bottles break when the water inside freezes -- milk bottles famously survived no problem, by pushing out the plug at the top.