New Guy: New to me 77 Ranchero

Discussion in 'New Member Welcome Center' started by Doc76251, Sep 17, 2018.

  1. Doc76251

    Doc76251 In Third Gear

    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    HA don't go far you know shit that works, and offer interesting points to ponder which sends me down rabbit holes I wouldn't have known to go to which learns me stuff. I am a firm believer that if a day goes by that I didn't learn SOMETHING new it was a wasted day.

    Cheers,

    Doc
     
  2. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,251
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    You adjust the primary transfer slot size by turning the curb idle screw CW or CCW, verify the transfer slot opening size(good baseline is .020-.025"-looks like a square, but it may be necessary to open them a bit more for radical cammed engines, sometimes up to .040"). Here is the curb idle screw for reference:
    [​IMG]

    This image shows where the vacuum secondary throttle blade adjustment screw is located, sometimes only accessed by removing carburetor from intake manifold. On a vacuum secondary carburetor, it is best to have VERY little to no secondary transfer slot showing when engine is at it's idle rpm setting, one of the reasons for this is upon deceleration the engine is usually in a low load and high vacuum situation and ANY part of the transfer slot exposed (whether on primary or secondary side) will essentially be a fuel mixture bleed(much too rich on deceleration) and adversely effect drivability.

    [​IMG]

    I hope none of my replies came out as being "preachy", not intended, just wanting to help you get this carb "on track" so you can actually enjoy driving your Ranchero.
     
  3. Doc76251

    Doc76251 In Third Gear

    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    AQL, you are not being "Preachy" I am having issues and you are providing sound, reasoned and dare I say experienced information at my request. Way back when on Page 2 I misread your post to indicate that the SECONDARY throttle plate should be set to show a "square". At that time with the carb upside down I could not figure out how to adjust the primary plates. It never dawned on me that the curb idle screw would do that, I was looking for an adjustment underneath, like the secondary.

    Based on all of the above here is what I am going to do next chance I get

    1. Leave the mixture screws alone, they seem to be adjusted to everyone's opinion of a good starting spot.
    2. Double check the float levels fore n' aft
    3. Unbolt the carb and cover the SECONDARY transfer slot
    4. Look to see if the primary is as closed as it should be with the Idle screw backed essentially all the way out.
    5. Bolt the carb back on
    6. Reset the choke delay to"zero"
    7. Fire that biotch up and see what happens

    Sound about right? Cover all the adjustment bases?

    Cheers,

    Doc
     
  4. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,251
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    Doc, it now sounds like you are on to something ;).
    Before you remove the carburetor, see if you can possibly install a screw/bolt in place of the secondary throttle blade adjustment screw that will protrude from the baseplate and allow any adjustments while the carburetor is bolted down, makes life a bit easier. If it can't be done, just adjust secondary throttle blade adjustment screw CCW and allow blades to just "bottom" out on the walls of the venturi, then adjust the screw until it JUST makes the blades move then add an additional 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn to open the secondaries. Verify that this adjustment doesn't uncover the secondary transfer slot(or VERY little of it), doing this and along with having .020-.025" primary transfer slot showing should be a good baseline setting to start with. If idle rpm is too high you can turn secondary adjustment screw CCW to close the throttle blades a bit thus reducing idle rpm. When adjusting idle mixture screws, wait until engine gets to full operating temp before any adjustments are made, using a vacuum gauge set mixture screws to give highest vacuum reading then add an additional 1/8 turn CCW to richen the mixture just a bit(make sure both screws are adjusted an equal amount from fully seated). I usually find this additional richness helpful with drivability. Hope this helps.
     
  5. Doc76251

    Doc76251 In Third Gear

    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    AQL, you should have professor behind your name!!!!

    The sun was up and it was a balmy 47*F when I got into it. Carb came off with no issues, did find that the throttle linkage was very loose tho. I inverted the carb over top of some unsuspecting weeds that showed up in my flower bed :cool:. Backed the secondary out till it quit moving and added 3/4 of a turn to when it started moving.played with the primary side and futzed with the fast idle screw until I got my little square and a little bit of adjustment on the idle screw. Pulled off the accelerator pump and inspected, she's all in one piece, screws were barley holding it on tho, not even finger tight. Adjusted the accelorator pump screw to snug it up and leave a .015" of travel. Flipped the carb over pulled out the 37 shooter and put a 31 with horns back in. Bolted the whole shebang back on the motor. Moment of truth time....

    Crank, crank, burble, crank crank, burble, crank, crank ..... VVVRRRROOOOMMM!!!!! Lump, Lump, Lump .......... and it just sat there idling at 500RPM!!!!!!

    I let it idle a bit and watched the choke cam come most of the way off and sh just sat there lumping along. I hit it and it was a bit flat but no pop no backfire. I added a bit more timing and she smoothed out some and the RPM's came up to about 600 ish. Drive time, shifted into drive and I wasn't sure it went in. Cruised around a bit and found my favorite parking lot. Matted the throttle and the ass end broke loose and started getting sideways, nice 30' snake stripe!!! Now that the motor was warm I adjusted the floats , the front was fine, the rear was a little heavy, fixed that. Adjusted to mixture screws to max vacuum in drive 2.5 turns each 10 mmHg. RPM's now happy at about 700.

    Thank you ll for putting up with my dumbassery, and thank you even more for the guidance to getting this thing right!

    Cheers,

    Doc
     
    Kiwirancher likes this.
  6. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,356
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    Just so you know, the low idle speed spec is 700, +/- 50, and a 50-100 RPM drop when put into gear. Hopefully, you just about have it there. So, good times coming!
     
  7. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,251
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    Always glad to help if possible and hearing it runs a whole lot better for you. Now go drive the hell out of it (it sounds like you already did, well just 30' anyhow) ;). Just an FYI, you want the accelerator pump arm to touch the accelerator pump diaphragm when at idle rest and have .015" clearance between the pump cam and accelerator pump linkage adjustment bolt/nut when @ WOT. This should help:
     
  8. Doc76251

    Doc76251 In Third Gear

    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Yes Sir! It's just a touch under the 750 marker and drops down to 650. The motor is not quite perfect yet tho. I took her on a little run, burnt some more rubber and enjoyed the shocked looks of some folks at the light when I pulled up. My hood is longer than their Fiat:p. Coming home the opportunity presented itself to let her rip, I hit about ooohh twice as fast as the limit when I heard the can of rocks start shaking, I had another mile of clear road and said "piss on it". supposedly I should get a sticker or something on the windshield. Looks like I will have to back the timing off a touch and then finally address the Distro springs and bushings. The car is stupid fast and responsive at "normal" speeds and will pick up 20 mph right damn now. I really need a 5 or 6 speed w/ OD to make her run. I feel like I'm 17 again.

    Cheers,

    Doc
     
    Kiwirancher and HVAC22 like this.
  9. Doc76251

    Doc76251 In Third Gear

    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    So I took Midnight out on her maiden voyage ........ Just a trip down to Chesapeake to pic up a buddy from out of town that wanted to visit some gun shops and ride in my "shaggin wagon". All previous voyages have been little sprints and around the block cruises, 1st time to do some highway miles and see how she rolls. First thing I noticed was that the RPM's were a bit high (gee 3.73 gears go figure) but even at 65 MPH if I wanted to go she was in her power band and she scooted. Next I noticed a bit of valve train rattle, thought previously that it was too much timing at the top end. Nope! Low oil level. That was also about the time I discovered that at idle I had about 10 psi of oil pressure. Was really trying to enjoy my bud's company and conversation but kept staring at my oil gauge. 2 quarts later and coffee from 7-11 she was back up to 25 psi and quiet as a mouse (well, minus the rumble from under the floor boards). I have to pay attention to the oil gauge, at park in the driveway it always read about 50 psi?!?!?!

    Also discovered I was WAY too rich on Fuel/Air, burned 1/3 a tank in 65 miles and she stank like raw fuel. Got her home and dialed back the F/A mixture and didn't loose anything on the vacuum gauge, not sure how I got where I was. Throttle was much crisper w/ no hesitation, so I think that adjustment may have worked. I laid 75' of one wheel rubber in the parking lot just to check. I'm beginning to think there is no limited slip diff despite the PO's assertions.

    The biggest revelation was when my bud took a pic of her for his daughter (she digs old heavy metal) and I was looking at the tire aspects, front tires rub a bit on right hand turns and look a bit big, back tires (same size) look tiny. Near as I can tell in the rain there is about 32" of wheel opening in the back and 13 ish inches inside the fender to work with. So I went Googling, Summit has a 285/70R15 (stupid expensive BFG/Coker Silverton) that measures out to 30.75" in dia w/ a 11.55" aspect. The tire gonkulator says I should be doing 2653 RPM's @65 mph with that big tire, I'm here to tell you 2653 RPM's is about 85mph on my 235/70's so I don't think that works right.

    Anybody ever stuffed a 285/70R15 in the ass end of a Ranchero before?

    I'm thinking at a minimum I won't be laying rubber but at the cost of the tire and a few more MPG I can be good with that.

    Cheers,

    Doc
     
  10. Doc76251

    Doc76251 In Third Gear

    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Well DAMN!!!

    So I got playing with tire sizes and such and kept noticing the RPM values of all the calculators are wayyyy high compared to what I am seeing on the dash as far as RPM's vs. Speed.It seems that the previous, previous, PO told a little fib on here about what was in the back end of Midnight. The car undeniably came with a C4 (per tags) that was swapped for an FMX and the drive shaft had to be remade (there are still paint pen markings describing the build on it) but I A$$uME'd that the limited slip and 3.73 gears were the truth. Well I haven't been able to hook up the left tire and lay rubber yet so either it's a broke LS or no LS. Did some eyeball numbers today 65MPH in 3rd gear (1:1.0 on the FMX) 2500 ish RPM. There is no way 3.73 gears would do that, it's math. Near as I can tell I have a 3.08 - 3.11 gears out back, which really doesn't hurt my feelings as I want this to be a cruiser (at least till I can stick a 5 speed in it). I know put it up on jack stands and count the rev's, it's been raining for a week tho!

    I'm still looking at a set of staggered tires but those 285/70's are out. I'm thinking a pair of 275/60's in the back and a pair of 235/60's up front might look just right on those 8" rims tucked up and wide AND drop the RPM's a bit too! Don't worry the 235/70's also fit my Ford Ranger daily driver which also needs new shoes!!!!! Now to find somebody to swap 8 tires on the cheapo_O

    Oil pressure seems to have settled down, still at 50 psi in the driveway but under load she drops to 25 psi and bounces up and down according to driving etc. If I am to believe the POx3 he didn't mess with the bottom end of the motor which means she might be a little tired/loose. I may need to bump up the curb idle as I noticed smoke coming up from under the hood at a red light where it has nada for vacuum, I'm also hearing some extra noise under the hood at 80 MPH

    Cheers,

    Doc
     
  11. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,251
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    At one time I had a set of 325/50/15 Hoosier Quick Time DOT tires on 15"x10" Weld Draglites with 5.5" backspacing(IIRC) fit under the rear of my Ranchero with no hitting, VERY close though. I never drove around with them to articulate the suspension as they were just a borrowed set to see what would fit.
     
  12. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    8,356
    Location:
    Everett, WA
    2500 RPM with 29" tires is around a 2.74 or 3.00 gear ratio, can't remember which exactly. You should do a physical check by spinning the driveshaft with the tires off the ground. 3 turns of the shaft for one turn of the wheels is a 3.00/1 ratio.
     
  13. Doc76251

    Doc76251 In Third Gear

    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Was chatting with another Ford guy at work he says it sounds like I have 3:25 gears in the rear as that is what he is running in his 69 F-100 w/ a similar 351W. I played with a couple gear gonkulators and that seems more in line than a 3:11 given various assumptions for actual tire height , slippage ect. I will give the last PO credit as the rims he chose seem to line up very well under the wells and over the brakes so I am not going to have big issues expanding the width out back just need to squish the diameter out front a touch. I did some fender massaging with a little hammer and got another 1/4" of clearance in the front which seems to help significantly with the rub. After my run to Ocal, FL in a couple weeks to pick up bumpers, glass and other bits it will be time to save for some new shoes (inspection for the Ranger is in May, she may go with Midnight's shoes on) as well as some headers that are available locally that "should fit". Patriot Mustang headers for the SBF. They look like they have the correct down exit angle and tuck up snug. We'll see, half the price of the Hooker long tubes. I'll have to do some before and after pics to see if I got the rake right with the tires, I'm still an 80's Hot Rod guy :cool:

    Cheers,

    Doc
     
  14. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,251
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    Do you mean Ocala, Fl, I live just south in Summerfield, let me know if you would like to meet up while you are visiting.
     
    andrewok1 likes this.
  15. andrewok1

    andrewok1 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER GOLD MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,234
    Location:
    ocala ,florida
    TODD.
    He will be here Sunday the March 24, I won't go to Daytona the last day of the TURKEY ROD RUN
    Looking forward to meeting up with Doc
     
  16. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

    Messages:
    1,251
    Location:
    Summerfield Florida
    10-4, hopefully I will be in town on the 24th. Would be good to have a meet-up.
     
  17. Doc76251

    Doc76251 In Third Gear

    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    That would be awesome!!! I'll be driving down from Savannah that morning to turn around and go back that evening then back to VA the next day. I kind of turned the parts run into a 4 day weekend birthday road trip for the wife.

    Cheers,

    Doc
     

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