New to forum and to Ford

Discussion in 'New Member Welcome Center' started by KAB, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. KAB

    KAB In First Gear

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    Hi I'm Keith. I was given a 1973 Ranchero, GT with a 351c and 4v heads, last week. The car is solid and has most of the parts, but needs a tranny (C6) and to be put together. I'm not 100% sure what to do with it as far as restoration goes. I'm sure I will be looking to you guys and gals for advice. All my car experience is with GM and Mopar, and I have never tackled a project like this, but is something I've always wanted to do. Looking forward to working on this and hopefully all goes well.
     
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  2. Mark Wiggins

    Mark Wiggins In Second Gear

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    Welcome, I am new here also and just started on my 77 project.
     
  3. aquartlow

    aquartlow In Maximum Overdrive

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    Location:
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    A BIG Welcome to the both of you guys! Always glad to see other Ranchero owners enter this forum.
     
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  4. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Just imagine a GM done right and the Ford will make sense.
    Welcome aboard!
     
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  5. PonyExpressRider

    PonyExpressRider In Overdrive

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    Location:
    Sutherlin, OR
    Welcome Keith... if you are looking for suggestions you will find a wide variety of opinions here.

    Personally, I prefer the original look. If there are indications of it being something special... Marti Report is a must... --- http://www.martiauto.com/martireports.cfm --- then decide!

    If its just a good looking car, then make it what you want. Lots of options available! When I was building mine, a friend of mine told me... "stock or custom, they have about the same value". But he is a Chevy guy... so take it for what its worth! LOL
     
  6. KAB

    KAB In First Gear

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    Thanks, my plan is to keep it original as possible. Thin I am not sure about are the intake, exhaust and heads. This motor has 75, 351m 2v heads with a 2 bbl. I have the original 4v setup, but after some research I'm seeing both of the combinations are "undesirable". But opinions differ on this. Probably going to pull the motor this weekend and see about machining and building. I want low end torque and around 350 hp. I'm not a racer, just want it to launch from
    a light and sound good. :D
     
  7. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Location:
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    If you want to launch from a light, go for increased torque, not horsepower. Torque is what pushes you back in your seat and takes 5000 miles off your tire life in 5 seconds. Horsepower gets you further up the dial on the speedometer before she taps out, and helps in high speed passing on the freeway.
     
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  8. KAB

    KAB In First Gear

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    My hp numbers are guesstimation. I want enough hp to push my down the high, but I agree with you torque is ultimately what I'm after. I've heard this is a bit tricky with 4v setup, because they where made for high end power.
     
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  9. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Once you start getting near 1HP per cube almost all of the bottom end is gone. That is why high stall converters and tall gears are used, the engine becomes gutless at low rpms.
     
  10. Saff54

    Saff54 In Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Welcome to the site Keith!great forum to help you along with your build
     
  11. PonyExpressRider

    PonyExpressRider In Overdrive

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    Location:
    Sutherlin, OR
    Not necessarily true... I am definitely not an engine guru... but!!!

    Mine is a 428 Cobra Jet, came with a 735 Holley double pumper... it is a torque motor! Even though Ford said 335 HP, and Carroll Shelby had a dyno reading of 500HP... top end is up there, but can leave a lot of rubber on the road in a short distance.

    Much of my research indicates, for FE's anyway, that your odd cubic inch blocks (i.e 427's, 429's) are speed motors. While even cubic inch blocks (428's, 460's) are torque motors. The exception may be the 428 PI. It came with different crank, cam, and heads then the normal 428, and the 428 Cobra Jet (which also had a different crank and heads).

    351's... can be either, but generally 351/400's are torque. While Clev's and Windsor's are speed.

    But its all in the build! And I have had 4 barrels on 351/400's. Generally got better performance and millage.
     
  12. DeepBarney

    DeepBarney In Second Gear

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    Location:
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    I'm sorry but there's some misinformation in there. First, the 429 and 460 are 385 series engines, not FE's. And no engine is inherently a torque or speed motor, whatever that means, it's all in how it's built.

    You can shift a motor's power development characteristics with camshafts and supporting mods. Start changing to big port, big valve, higher flow rate heads and intakes and you start moving your power peak higher up the rpm band.

    There's a good Engine Masters video that covers this topic over on the Motor Trend website. Worth a Google.

    Edit: If you're talking strictly about factory built engines, then I will grant you that due to the technology/designs of the time, those motors made most of the power they had to offer through the low and mid-range (obviously there's exceptions to this).
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  13. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Good info Barney, except that some engines ARE inherently torque or RPM engines
    Short stroke over square engines build little torque but spin fast. The opposite is true for long stroke under square engine designs.
     
  14. DeepBarney

    DeepBarney In Second Gear

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    Location:
    KS
    Yep that's very true. I was thinking and speaking in terms of a given engines potential rpm range. So those long stroke, under square motors which by there very design are limited to say 7,000 rpm can still be equipped and tuned to produce the majority of their power in the upper portion of that range, versus through the bottom and middle we'd typically associate with such a design.

    Comparing different designs across the board to one another such as you bring up, then I'll concede you are right in that some engines are more favorable to setting up as peaky, high rpm, screamers or fat torque, low revs, tractors.

    Still any of those engines can be modified to shift that power in either direction on the RPM spectrum, some just may be more inherently suitable for the direction you wish to slide that scale than others. And as such isn't limited to being considered a tractor or a screamer when looked at solely in it's own design family. That is merely my point on the subject.

    In any case, cheers to fruitful discussion.
     
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  15. PonyExpressRider

    PonyExpressRider In Overdrive

    Messages:
    891
    Location:
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    Yes, I was generally speaking of factory motors!

    Notice the last sentence where I said; "But its all in the build!"?
     
  16. DeepBarney

    DeepBarney In Second Gear

    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    KS
    Not initially. But hey, I'm human, and sometimes we miss things when we're reading on the john.
     
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  17. PonyExpressRider

    PonyExpressRider In Overdrive

    Messages:
    891
    Location:
    Sutherlin, OR
    LOL!!!

    to many replies available... and to pick just one??? :rolleyes:
     
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  18. KAB

    KAB In First Gear

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    Thanks for all the information, its great advice.
    I am going to do a 351c, 4v open chamber heads (we can have this argument later, lol), with a C6 tranny build. I want to avoid a stall converter, so I want to keep the high end down. There are some aticles out there that explain how to shift the power of a 4v OC to get more low end torque (cam and headers).
    The other problem I have is I am missing exhaust manifolds, so I am going to have to use headers, but I am having problems finding them that will fit a 4v with a C6 with a 1 5/8 tube.
     
  19. ribald1

    ribald1 Banned PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Location:
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    With that build you don't want long tube headers anyway.
    Shorties will have no transmission clearance issues.
    Have you considered the AOD? It might be a better fit for your build than the C6
     
  20. KAB

    KAB In First Gear

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    Haven't thought about an AOD. I have thought about using a remanufactured C4 that will handle the power. I can't find shorties for the 4v head setup. I may have to have set made.
     

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