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Discussion in 'Ranchero Tech Help' started by beerbelly, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,477
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Hey guys, I need your help.
    Started the Ranchero this morning, then shut it off to get something I forgot in the house. Came back, no start, just a heavy click and the interior lights dimmed. Tried it a couple more times after charging from the other car, then another click and all the interior lights went out. Here's what I've done so far:
    • measured battery at 12.63 volts, similar at solenoid
    • charged for 1/2 hour from another car running at 2000+ rpm
    • tapped on solenoid & voltage regulator (modern transistor type)
    • pounded on starter (original style)
    • checked fuses by kick panel; all look OK
    • jacked up rear end & spun tires in gear; not locked up
    • scratched head & looked confused
    Is there a fusible link in the system? Any thoughts or suggestions?
     
  2. Jeff B

    Jeff B In Maximum Overdrive BRONZE MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,504
    Location:
    SoCal
    Sounds like the battery. Some volts, no amps. Might have a defect internally. Can you switch one from another car to check?
     
  3. Boiler92

    Boiler92 In Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    598
    Location:
    Indiana
    Check the voltage while jumping the solenoid or just straight jump it or around it and see what happens.
     
  4. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,477
    Location:
    Portland OR
    I think I found the problem. While measuring voltage across the solenoid and tapping the top of it with more authority, I get back my interior & dash lights, and get a click from the starter. Still doesn't turn over, but I'll head to NAPA tomorrow for a new solenoid.
     
  5. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    12,132
    Location:
    Seguin, TX
    Yeah, it could be bad, but make sure you clean all the wite and cable eyes before installing, and ensure the bolts and the pad the bracket sit on have a clean, rust-free ground. I've had both give me problems.
     
  6. plumcolr

    plumcolr In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,578
    Location:
    Freehold NJ
    Check the engine ground. Yeah, that solenoid ground to the inner fender panel is important.
     
  7. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,477
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Not the solenoid. All cables are like new, replaced within the last 3 years. Wire brushed all connections and cleaned with contact cleaner. Got interior and dash lights, but as soon as I turned the key, everything went black again.

    Next up, new ignition tumbler & switch; it has been sloppy & notchy lately.
     
  8. 1965 Ranchero 66G

    1965 Ranchero 66G In Maximum Overdrive Unubtanium Member

    Messages:
    2,990
    Location:
    Texas
    Load test the battery, might be a dead cell.
     
  9. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,457
    Location:
    central CT
    Have you tried it with the headlights on? They don't go through the ignition switch, so that might help to locate the issue. That and having a volt meter hooked up while testing to check voltage drop.
     
  10. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,477
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Headlights don't come on. Measure voltage drop across the battery while turning key to Start?
     
    Lincolnut likes this.
  11. LSChero

    LSChero In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

    Messages:
    2,400
    Location:
    Area 6 NV
    Should be able to jumper 12V to starter(key off).If it she cranks,batt.starter and grounds are good.Some diagrams show fuse link that powers electrical off of batt.or relay.(blk/yellow wire)May be worth a look..Who knows what mods have been done over the years with our old iron.Time to break out the VO meter!
     
  12. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,477
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Battery tests good, solenoid is new, still no starter action; starter is next in the chain. I know, I know, I'm throwing parts at a problem, but electrical is just voodoo to me; besides, I'll sleep better knowing that circuit is all new.
    I'm thinking about a PowerMaster 9103 rather than a stock rebuild; anyone have experience with that brand?
     
  13. plumcolr

    plumcolr In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,578
    Location:
    Freehold NJ
    Pull it and look at it before you spend your $rancherobux. Might see something strange.
     
  14. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,457
    Location:
    central CT
    Jay, that starter has a solenoid built into it and the wiring is different. Personally I prefer the older stock style starter, not the gear reduction type. Have you jumped the solenoid to see if the starter turns? Just feed battery positive to the "S" terminal on the solenoid with a jumper wire and it should crank. Make sure it's in neutral. :rolleyes: If it doesn't turn over, then starter is bad.
     
    The Wrench likes this.
  15. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,477
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Yep, did that Phil; I'm guessing the bendix isn't withdrawing or jammed. I loosened the mounting bolts and pounded on the case with a BFH, but no luck. I'm gonna pull the starter today & take a peek.
    I've had that starter out once before and it was a PITA; I remember I had to drop the exhaust to get that heavy mother out. I'm thinking a PMGR might be more to my liking.
     
  16. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,477
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Got the mounting bolts out, but the starter won't budge. Put a 16" breaker bar on the crank bolt, engine won't turn; locked up. Any thoughts?
     
  17. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,477
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Got it! All in took was a few major whacks with a BFH and a two foot 2x2, then disconnected the idler arm and wiggled it out. The engine is freed up too.
    Found a couple of issues- a stray chunk stuck in the flywheel teeth, and a very sloppy pinion bushing. I'm ordering a PowerMaster today; I'm just not trusting big box rebuilts these days.

    stray chunk.jpg pinion bushing.jpg
     
    Buds 67 likes this.
  18. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

    Messages:
    1,457
    Location:
    central CT
    What the hell is that chunk of crap in the teeth? Metal? Make sure to check on the throw of the starter you get - older standard trans starters had only 7/16" of throw compared to 5/8" for AT or 5.0. The teeth on your old starter look like they had perfect engagement, you can probably measure the throw on that. Hey, does the starter work now? :confused:o_O Glad you found the issue.
     
  19. RancheroRandy

    RancheroRandy In Overdrive

    Messages:
    958
    Location:
    NC
    Bench test that baby...I do have a Power Master starter on mine...I looked for the paperwork for the model but couldn't find it (though it was a rush job right before going to cars and coffee this AM) but I assume it's probably that model you posted.
     
  20. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    3,477
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Yep, a piece of metal; don't know where it came from.

    I'm not gonna bench test it, I'm gonna scrap it. I contacted PowerMaster about the correct starter, and they sent me a Ford tech bulletin and a bunch of options for starters- I'm going with the 9103 which will be plenty for my near stock engine. Any issues with yours Randy?

    img-113-e.jpg 9103.png 9004-3.png 9603.png 9503.jpg 9453.jpg
     
    Buds 67 likes this.

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