Rebuilding 302 Ranchero Heads in Class

Discussion in 'Ranchero Tech Help' started by Mike1969, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. Mike1969

    Mike1969 In Third Gear

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    A man needs a toy, right? Dad & I are going to share this engine as it's likely that I won't be able to take two cars with me once I graduate college. He's looking forward to putting it in his Bullitt! ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Mike1969

    Mike1969 In Third Gear

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    Pounded in cam bearings today. I was worried about it, but it went really smoothly. Went to check my new cam (COMP XE262H) to make sure it would fit fine in the bearings. Threw it on the dial-indicator to check for deflection and it showed .005" of warpage! Waiting on my freeze plugs to come in, but looks like they got lost in the mail... nothing is ever easy!
     
  3. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Wait--.005 of warpage? Not clearance? Not end play?
    I admit, I've only built a few engines, but I'm sure warpage isn't something you measure on cam fitment. I could be wrong, but I never have heard of that particular measurement.
     
  4. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    The cam has indents that you can place between centers. What he is talking about is runout on the interior bearing surfaces.
    5 thou is not really out of line for a used mass produced cam even though we would rather otherwise.
    Another issue is that the metal is hot when a cam is turned, and it is hot when running. A cam should be warmed up when checking runout as a cold cam at 5thou may be perfect and a cold cam at 2 thou may be 20thou when hot.
     
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  5. Mike1969

    Mike1969 In Third Gear

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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
  6. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Well, I do know about hot/cold clearance, but he used 'warpage,' and that threw me.
    As for the eccentric, even if an engine originally had a 1-piece, I would think a 2-piece would be an upgrade, along with the more modern oil slinger from a '70s-and-up 302.
     
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  7. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    I suspect he used 'warp' to say 'bend".
    As these are nautical terms, I can see why you would see the distinction between the words that many others do not.
     
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  8. Mike1969

    Mike1969 In Third Gear

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    Sorry for the confusion, but I think you got the gist.
     
  9. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    No apology needed.
    Words are crude tools as they mean different things to different people.
    Say "bench" to one person and they envision a piano bench, another a park bench, another waiting replacements for a team.
     
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  10. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Fourth Gear GOLD MEMBER

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    Yours has a one piece eccentric, the biggest difference is in the timing chain cam sprocket, they are made differently for one piece or two piece. They have to match. You will find that replacing the one piece is expensive, although normally not necessary. If it's not grooved a lot, just reuse it.
    The bolt kit will make you crazy. ARP (or anyone else) doesn't make a kit that has all the right bolts for a small block Ford in one kit. You can buy two different kits and will still (most of the time) be missing a couple bolts to complete the assembly. Find a good hardware store and just use grade 5 bolts with grade 8 washers. (they're smaller O.D.) The oil slinger can be omitted, the seals used today are far superior to seals from 1969.
     
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  11. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Wait--I thought the slinger was to throw oil up to keep the chain and sprockets oiled properly, you know, splash oiling? Plus, if the cam gear is different for one vs. two-piece eccentrics, would an appropriate timing set fit this application? I would think mi i.i,ing or preventing undue wear would go a long way. As for words, context is definitely lost if someone uses a word that's in an unfamiliar way to another. That's why I jumped on it, I'd never heard anyone use 'warping' in reference to a camshaft. Even when I built Babe's engine, the machinist specifically told me what 'clearance' to measure for.
     
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  12. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Runout and clearance are entirely different things.
    I always check a cam before install. I set it between centers on my lathe, check runout, bearing size, and cam length.
    Then I verify with a degree wheel and dial indicator the ground in advance, lobe separation, duration, and lift.
     
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  13. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Ah, but some of us are not as lucky to have a lathe. I was lucky to have been able to install the bearings and cam to check clearance, then install the cam plate and plug properly, at the machine shop (the machinist was a fellow Blue Oval guy).
     
  14. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Luck wasn't involved, but you don't need a lathe to set up a pair of centers and a dial indicator. I use the lathe because I have it.
     
  15. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    I understand, if I really wanted to check a camshaft or other such balanced shafts, I'm sure I could muddle through doing a check; I have a cousin that's a mechanical engineer who could help me.
     
  16. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    As a person who has spent almost half a century tasked with implementing items presented by engineers and architects, I will withhold comment.
     
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  17. Mike1969

    Mike1969 In Third Gear

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    Some really good information in here and I appreciate it greatly guys. Bummer about the ARP bolt kits...
     
  18. ribald1

    ribald1 In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    The blessing of the broad base of engine uses by Ford creates the curse of myriad applications.
    The alternative is Chevy, where the only changes are skin shape and paint.
     
  19. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Fourth Gear GOLD MEMBER

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  20. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    What I meant, and I should've posed the question better, is this: will a late-model 302/5.0 L timing set fit a '60s 302 engine without problems? If so, the OP could install a true dual-roller set, if he wished, and a two-piece eccentric. As for the slinger, it's interesting that it would be for protecting the front main seal, as the rear main has nothing to protect it, and it leaked worse, on average, than any front main seal ever did, slinger or not.
     

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