Serpentine belt drive for a 400

Discussion in 'Ranchero Tech Reference & Articles' started by Robbtroy, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    So, one of the modifications that my '75 with a 400 will be getting is a serpentine belt drive. It consist of all Ford parts with only the use of some homemade bracketry and a water pump adapter plate. I am currently about 90% through. On this particular build the water pump this from 5.8 liter along with its crank and water pump pulley, the alternator, ac compressor and power steering pump are off a Crown Vic.
    IMG_20160214_192300.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
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  2. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    So, having the day off allowed me to make more progress on this project. made most of needed spacers and the adapter for the tensioner.. will pick up some proper length bolts tomorrow.
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    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
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  3. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Wow, I'm impressed. Not an easy task to tackle.
     
  4. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    Worked on fabricating the bracket to hold the tensioner assembly last night. Nearly completed.
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    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
  5. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    The water pump for this project is off a 5.8 liter (reverse flow). the basic bolt holes for this water pump match the bolt holes for the 400 water pump. I remove the back cover off of the 5.8 liter and made a new plate that adapts it to the 400. I will attach a picture of it in the next few days.
     
  6. LSChero

    LSChero In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Nice fab work Robb!
     
  7. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    Finished the tensioner bracket and tack welded it into position.. It's a good fit....
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    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
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  8. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    Here is the stainless plate that was fabricated to adapt the reverse flow 5.8l / 351W pump to the 400. It blocks off the bypass port. Therefore I'm using one heater port off the water pump (suction) and the heater port off the block (discharge) as the bypass. There are two bolts that I need to address next, other than that everything else lines up.
    IMG_20160222_195047.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
  9. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    It's looking good; a question, though: why have the tensioner and idler where they are? The truck 5.0/5.8 has the tensioner in the idler's position, right next to the alternator, and where the tensioner is, there would be the Thermactor pump or a ribbed idler. And the setup with the reverse rotation pump and backing plate sounds good. I for one want to know what the heater core's performance will be.
     
  10. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    In regards to the tensioner position, the factory positions vary a bit depending on yr/model. I have a 5.8L in an E350, in which the tensioner is low and the idler is above. But my primary reason for placing it there was to have it on the strongest part of my bracket and to allow for the largest amount of clearance. The Idler that I'm using is actually spec'd for a V-6 Taurus. I've had issues with the tensioners on the 5.8L (breakage). It was also much easier to fabricate a bracket/cup to hold it vs that of the 5.8L, as far as the heater core, the flow to it is along the the lines of the original set up. I am plugging one of the water ports on the water pump and using the one that is in the same location as on the 400 water pump. Now with that being said, hopefully it will operate as well as it did originally, but either way, I will share those details when I get it fired up. I attached the diagram that I more or less followed in my layout.
    1994-ford-e-series-club-wagon-5-05-8l-serpentine-belt-diagram.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
  11. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Yeah, I see. Funny that I never worked on an Econoline with the 5.8L. But I do see where the difference is: the idler and tensioner pulley placements are because you won't be running a Thermactor or an idler in its place. I just hope this won't be a slippery pig by squealing all the time, knock on wood. *raps knuckles on noggin*
     
  12. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    So in one of my earlier post, I mentioned the two bolts of the water pump needing attention. the one closest to the inlet poses the biggest issue. Looking at 2 of three choices. #1: plug the hole in the timing cover with a sealed set screw and not install a bolt at the location. Not my ideal, but as many of you who've owned a small ford block know, broken/missing water pump bolts don't necessarily make a leak. #2: modify said water pump to accept a bolt. ( cut a little, grind a bit, file a tad, drill out the existing threads and WaaLaa! A new boss) so I used a long 5/16 set screw and a shallow jamb nut. Will require either a hex with a ball end or the removal of the balancer to get to it. ((Still much easier than most of the new cars I've worked on)) #3: weld up a new boss that passes thru a little bit of the return....
     
  13. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    The previously mentioned bolt...
    IMG_20160229_213803.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
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  14. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    Nice clean fix.
    That's how I did my headers on my Falcon - studs and shallow nuts. Luckily I had enough room for a flange style nut.
     
  15. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Pretty crever....
     
  16. andrewok1

    andrewok1 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER GOLD MEMBER

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    That is beyond my scope of skills ,VERY IMPRESSIVE
     
  17. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    One other question, about the pump, how well did the water holes match up? I always thought the pump size of a Windsor was just a tad smaller than a 335-series pump.
     
  18. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    Location:
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    I attached a couple of pictures that will help. The first one shows the back of the reverse flow pump ( 5.8L ) and the stainless adapter plate that I made. You can see the outline of the "new" pump on it. The holes line up except the very top one, (~1/4"lower). also some slight mods were made to the bottom two (thread removal etc) other than that it's a match. I used a piece of Plexiglass when I was working out the concept so that I could easily see the differences. the plate blocks off the bypass hole and the inner bolt hole that was next to it. The second photo shows the pump set in place, not all of the bolts were installed since I was working on resolving one of the bottom bolt issues, (see post #12) but they all fit in with no problems. It appears that the Ford engineers shared heavily between the SBF and 335 series water pump. (Cost effectiveness) rather than redesigning from scratch, which is paying benefits for this project... ;)
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    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
  19. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    I see, but my question is, how well did the holes in your custom plate match up to the block water holes? I see one hole in the plate in the first pic is oval (left one) while the other is the standard D shape. My concern is cavitation in the flow into the block.
     
  20. Robbtroy

    Robbtroy In Second Gear

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    Sorry, the water holes line up pretty well, the lighting on this attached photo is not the best, but you can see the hole on the drivers side is almost spot on, the hole on the passenger side has about 1/8" back from it original hole, (The lip appears larger than it is in the photo) but the main hole has a straight shot. The edges will get radius'd with grinder.. Front.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016

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