So, I dropped the 302 off at the local machine shop today for inspection

Discussion in 'Ranchero Tech Help' started by Boiler92, Aug 19, 2020.

  1. Boiler92

    Boiler92 In Fourth Gear SILVER MEMBER

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    Planning on swapping out the 250 straight 6 in my 69 for a 302 out of a 69 Fairlane. There is an old engine builder down the road so I took it to him for teardown and evaluation. I don't have the expertise to feel good about tackling that myself.

    In any case, I just asked him to evaluate it, let me know what he finds good and bad and provide an estimate.

    He said he would and could do whatever machine work required and give all the parts back to me for reassembly or he could put it together for a price of course. I asked him what that would be. He said he will only put them back together if he bores the cylinders, turns the crank, installs new rods and pistons of course, complete valve job etc "to basically turn it into a crate motor". I asked him what a ballpark is on that. He said, "worst case, $3,000-$3,500."

    GULP.

    I think I'm gonna end up putting my air cooled VW and small engine rebuilding experience to use. I've helped with a 350 SBC before but never cracked open a Ford. $3,500 is a bit much for me. I can do a few hundred here or there without the wife noticing too much or at least not saying anything and a grand or two with prior discussion and convincing but much more than that and I'm in trouble. Never thought it would be that high when I see long blocks online for much, much less.

    Oh, and this guy has the reputation of being affordable.
     
  2. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    I talked to a very reputable rebuilder in Portland 3 years ago about the same thing, just so I had a feel for the cost. Same process as your guy, plus balance crank, rods, flywheel & clutch, mild Crane cam & lifters, hardened seats. I bring him the long block, flywheel & clutch on a pallet wrapped in plastic, and they spin test it and provide 5 quarts of Brad Penn break in oil when they're done. $3,500 back then.
     
  3. Boiler92

    Boiler92 In Fourth Gear SILVER MEMBER

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    My expectations must have been a bit off. Thanks for the info.

    I'm confident that with the resources out there I could put it together and it would run. What I'm not confident in is my experience level and not knowing what I don't know that could make a big difference in how long it lasts or how well it runs because I didn't recognize when something just wasn't quite right.

    Saving a grand or whatever wouldn't be a good deal if it blew up prematurely due to my ignorance.
     
  4. beerbelly

    beerbelly In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    I feel the same way- I know enough to be dangerous, but not enough to do a total rebuild on a Ford that I'd like to drive another 100k.
    I also have some experience building VW engines, including my first in my Air Force barracks in Alaska. I finished that '65 40 horse (with 83mm big bore, Bug Spray carb & header from Claude's Buggies)) engine two days before I hit the Alcan Highway heading for my next station at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, an epic trip with no failures (!). But I was young, dumb and adventurous back then; today, I'd just write a check.

    1965 VW in Alaska.jpg VW on Alaska Hwy.jpg
     
  5. 65restomod

    65restomod In Overdrive BRONZE MEMBER

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    It's a lot of common sense on reassembly, if the cyls. are bored and and pistons are matched to the cyl and the crank has been cut and the correct bearings ordered by the machine shop, its just a matter of reassembly in the correct order.
    If you have the 302 in your shop, maybe tear it down first to get a idea, IE remove the heads and oil pan etc.( if the machine shop says its OK)
    Make sure you take pictures and mark or catalog bolts

    The best thing to start though is get a '69 Ford engine manual and a good torque wrench ( it will be your friend) for assistance in reassembly
     
  6. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Any shop will accept a disassembled engine. And though there are a few design differences between SBC and SBF, the techniques are about the same. I had Babe's engine torn down but had to can the heads as they were cracked from overheating, and the machinist had a pair already built, for $100, to replace them. Then the short lock work and rebuild kit purchase was $600 for me (it helps to know your local machinist), so I figure you'd likely spend about double to 2.5 times my cost ($700), and my cost was 17 years ago (so inflation and having done work on the machinist's truck). Anyway, teardown and reassembly is something you can do; you only need an engine stand and a good torque wrench, and find a book on engine reassembly to refer to.
     
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  7. pmrphil

    pmrphil In Maximum Overdrive GOLD MEMBER

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    That's about what I quote the same job for - he's not off base, it just costs that much nowadays. Good parts ain't cheap, and the equipment you need to machine correctly is insane today.
     
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  8. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    The place my machinist friend was working was a CarQuest that had been around since before the Korean War, and they ensured all equipment was kept up-to-date. In addition, he ran my block through what he called a 'bake and shake' procedure, that baked the block till all hydrocarbons were turned to carbon, then shot-peened and cleaned to stress-relieve the block. And that isn't standard procedure at a lot of machine shops. But otherwise, I got a fully-machined disassembled engine, except the heads and installing the cam bearings, so I put the engine together myself, and when I resealed it, I was so pleased with the cleanliness and lack of wear after 30+K miles.
     
  9. Boiler92

    Boiler92 In Fourth Gear SILVER MEMBER

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    Interesting. The guy I took the 302 to used to run the machine shop at a nearby Carquest before they shut it down. Someone told me he bought out their equipment, retired from there and opened his own shop.

    I don't know how old he is but if I were guessing I'd say around 70. Hopefully that translates into lots of knowledge and attention to detail.
     
  10. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    Here's to hoping that pans out. There's nothing more reassuring that a professional job well-done.
     
  11. LSChero

    LSChero In Maximum Overdrive PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Thats a good price if includes complete head rebuild and engine assembly.About the same price as turn key rebuild.
    https://blueprintengines.com/produc...k-ford-dressed-longblock-carburetor-bp3023ctc
    I prefer to have all machine work done on block/crank done by machinist,then assemble myself.Avoids warranty issues!
    5.0 I built last year total was around 2500.00.Cleaned,magged,cam bearings,core plugs and crank polish.Would have been additional
    800 with new forged pistons.Got lucky bore was good,used old HO slugs with new rings.
    SAM_3902.JPG SAM_3901.JPG
     
  12. Doc76251

    Doc76251 In Fourth Gear

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    I'm in the throws of your adventure as we speak and so far the most frustrating thing is the piston choice which I'm sure will be eclipsed by the cam choice once I get everything in the bottom half nailed down. Squish and Quench is my nemesis right now but I think I figured it out. You'd think that as long as SBF's have been around SOMEBODY would have developed an "If this, Then that" algorithm to build them, NOPE!!!! Gotta do all that math yourself and then re-do it every time you change something. Good Luck. I don't fear putting it together it's the getting the right parts in a pile that takes the effort.

    Cheers,

    Doc
     
  13. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster In First Gear

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    I have close to $4,000.00 in my 250 6 ford 250 inline 6 with roller rockers and tri-power resized.jpg
     
  14. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    I was gonna go all Grammar Nazi on ya (the word is 'throes') but since we are talking engine assemblies, it does fit, so never mind, I'll shut up now....
     
  15. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

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    And it shows! Although, I'd want port EFI....
     
  16. T16592

    T16592 In Fourth Gear PLATINUM MEMBER

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    Oh boy, some small block 289 is going to get a real surprise when your 6 cylinder out does him at the signal light. Ak Miller is smiling down on you :)
     
  17. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster In First Gear

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