spun the gear off my dist.

well... last time I took my chero out, it was sorta running crappy. I brought it home thinking it was the points..so I went and bought the electronic ignition I been wanting to buy. I get home try and start the chero to pull it outside, but it wouldnt start .. just popping and backfiring.

I figure might as well fix it in the garage ..I took off the distributor cap, and went to take off the rotor, and noticed it would spin. Then I realized I had a bigger problem, I pull out the dist. and, no gear. I see the gear sitting there, so with long nose pliers I get it out, noting the tiny 1/8" roll pin sheared off.

I get a new roll pin, and reinstall the gear. I figured I needed to know why it sheared off. I put in my oil pump primer and spun it, with my cordless drill. all the sudden my drill bogged down and the pump was hard as hell to spin.

I always had good oil pressure, and still do, like 80 reving, and 60 reg idle. why would this get hard to turn? I got like 700 miles on the motor. I can turn it my hand, but its kind tough, like a rubbery resistance.

do I need to pull the motor? and then the pump, or has anyone lifted the motor high enough to get the pan off ? any ideas?

 

ohh yeah...70 351 cleveland motor.

 

I was wondering if I should try that. The dist. was the original 70 item. I guess not bad for 37 years.

 

The stiffening of the pump is it pressurizing the oil gallerys,. Unless its exremely hard to turn I wouldnt worry . Is it a high volume, High pressure oil pump? Not an uncommon thing to shear a dizzy pin,, try looking down th edizzt hole and see if the oil pump shaft looks twisted, If you can find one. a hardened pin will last longer than the standard stocker,, 60, PSI at idle is a bit high to me unless thats cold pressure. ..Your pressure relief spring may be hangin up ,,, If it happens again I would consider dropping the pan

 

Im not sure on the pump. Im guessing since it runs bout 80# while driving it, might be a high volume.

 

I can get a hardened pin at work. I just put in a roll pin like they had in it. maybe I'll try that and see if it twist's again. then ... if it does ..I guess pan droppin time.

 

I heard the EPA found him and he is busy soaking up gas with rags at a service station.
I agree with these guys. Put in a new pin and let her rip. You found all the pieces, right?

 

yeah all the pieces was in the dist shaft & the gear.

 

Some info on distributor gear adjustment

http://www.460ford.com/viewtopic.php?t=348

 

Definitely sounds like a HV HP pump to me...One other thing that could have happened, take a look at the bottom of the dizzy gear and see if it shows signs of excessive wear ,, It rarely happens but the clearance between the block and dizzy gear can be a bit close and when the cam gear engages it forces the dizzy gear down bit and sometimes it will cause the gear to jam and shear off the pin , not common but can happen

 

thanks guys, Ill be out in the garage tomorrow checking it out. if all looks well, Ill just reinstall it and try it again.

 

Just a couple thoughts, first is the pin did what it was designed to do, shear and no other damage. You say you have 700 miles on the engine, thats about right for the roll pin to go with a HP or HV pump, which by the way is not needed or recommended on a street cleveland and causes more issues than they are worth.
If it were me I would not install a hardened pin at this point. Doing so may cause the shaft to twist or break and further damage. Replace the pin and wait and see, carry a spare or two. If it keeps shearing replace the pump with a standard volume high quality unit.
Good luck...

 

yup, works great. wow! does the electronic ignition make a difference in the way it starts up. runs smoother, now as long as the pin holds out im good to go. thanks all.

 

Clevelands will do this sometimes with a high volume or high pressure pump neither of which is a good idea unless you are running pretty loose main and rod bearing clearances. They can just do it from attrition too. 80 psi warm is really more than you need. One of the big problems with running high volume pumps on C and M motors is that they will just empty the oil pan and fill up the valve covers as the revs get up. If you get oil running out of the breather or the engine seems to be surging at high revs watch your oil pressure gauge.


In any case a great way to do those roll pins is to put a new one in and then tap a small one inside the larger one. Ford used to do it that way on heavy duty applications. One other note is to watch as some distributor shafts have two holes on them at different heights so be sure you get lined up with the right one.

 

Thinking about distro gears, I'm reminded that they have 15 teeth? So it seems like the gear could be reinstalled 180 degrees rotated from the original position -- and then would result in some unusual distributor resting position when stabbing #1. [half a tooth = 12 degrees offset from usual position]

I've never had this [broken pin] problem -- can somebody with experience tell me if this is a real issue? FWIW, my '71 Ford Engine manual has a section on replacing the gear but says nothing at all about any phasing issue.

 

Ya it is common on not just Clevelands but 302's 289's and such, wasn't designed for it, hp or hv, too many weak links. You have to build the engine as a unit that works in harmony, not just add-ons to be cool. You need a HV or HP on a race engine that turns 7000+, ya you do but with that you also need bottom end work, hardened pump shaft with a hardened shear pin, tolerances play a part, oil restrictors, oil flow mods. So use the "oh you need a HV oil pump on a Cleveland" advise for a street engine that goes to 6500 sometimes, carry a large wallet and spares.
Just not needed, more harm than good, haven't been there, but seen it more than once...