To Tub, or Not. That is the question.

Discussion in 'General Ranchero Help' started by Krazzyk, Apr 2, 2022.

  1. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    I'll keep this short...

    I'm at the point in my frame off that I need to decide what wheel/tire package I'm going to use.
    My 'Chero is completely rust free and it pains me to even think of cutting that bed up so I can tub it.

    I've got the Spohn Upper & Lower arms for the rear end and the LSM Tubular uppers for the front end. All four corners are on air bags with pressure & level sensing.

    What I need help with is knowing what the largest wheel/tire is I can fit in the front/rear is W/O cutting the body is, Or, how to figure that out.

    I'm not opposed to rolling the inside wheel well lip for an extra bit of room in the front & back.

    I thought about tubing it but that also requires the frame rails to be cut and I'm not getting that deep into this. It's outside my current abilities and budget.

    Any help is appreciated.

    Thanks,
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
  2. grebaba

    grebaba In Fourth Gear

    Messages:
    362
    What are you going to use the car for?
    Street or Race.
    My 71 can get a 11 inch tire in it without tubing and with the engine in it- a mild 429 I buildt for the street w/ 630HP and 575 fpt. I don't have any problems hooking up.
    I am running calvert's bar's and mono split leaf springs.
    With the body off the frame it is going to be hard to figure how big a tire you can use so may be someone on here can give you some advice on that.
    Greg
     
    Buds 67 likes this.
  3. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas

    Greg,

    Thanks for your info. What size wheel are you using? Do you know the offset?

    Thanks,

    Karl
     
  4. grebaba

    grebaba In Fourth Gear

    Messages:
    362
    Right now I am running Crager GT wheels 8 inchs wide.
    I have MT sportsman tires 9 inchs wide with a 3 and 1/2 inch offset.
    There is 14 inch's of clearence from the outer edge of the wheel well to the inside measured from the top of the opening.
    I have run 255-40-19 inch tires with no problems except I just don't like the rubber band look so went back to the 15 inch wheel.
    When I race I run M&H N50 15 tires.
    Greg
     
    Buds 67 likes this.
  5. Boiler92

    Boiler92 In Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    700
    Location:
    Indiana
    Personal preference would be not to tub unless it's a track only rig.

    Just don't care for the look on a street car/truck. Of course I don't like lowered, bagged, dropped, cowl hoods, blowers, flares, chopped etc either.

    A little wider rear tires with rear end up a bit is as far as I go.

    Again, just personal preference.
     
  6. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Greg,

    Thanks again for the additional info.

    I realized I didn't answer your original question. Was in a rush when I answered.

    I'm building it to be a mut.

    Meaning, I would like to be able to do autocross, when I get the chance. Run around town mostly, drag a trailer if I must but not normally, and most of all...
    Take it on the HotRod Power Tour once it's done. I did that last year with my son in my 2013 Camaro 1LE and we had a great time.
    Being able to take it on the tour and participate in all the events, autocross & drags is the real goal.

    Thanks for the wheel/tire sizes. I'll see what I can find those sizes.

    Thanks
     
  7. grebaba

    grebaba In Fourth Gear

    Messages:
    362
    You might want to keep in mind that my car is a 71 and does not have a frame. If I recall the later models have more clearance then I have in the wheel wells but am not sure about the frame interferance.
    If you have a friendly local tire shop you can have them mount a tire on a rim that you are considering and just bolt it on the car to check fit. Of course it helps if you buy your tires and rims from him. We have a good tire shop here that does that.
    If I was building a car for the power tour I would look at what it is going to do, if you are going to auto cross and drag you will have to make some compromise's.
    I would look at a good tire with about a 10 to 12 inch cross section because a to wide a tire will work great on the strip but hold you back in auto cross.
    Another thing is you will need a very reliable car because it is a lot more fun if you don't have to constantly have to work on it during the tour.
    i have never made a power tour but have went to several street machine and street rod event's over the years and they can be a lot of fun if you don't break down a lot.
    Have fun.
    Greg
     
  8. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas

    I hear what you're saying. Right now my car is completely torn down for rebuild.
    So I can't take it to someone to figure it out.
    I'm in the midst of figuring out if I want to spend the money on Willwood brakes or just go with Explorer back brakes and leave the front stock. Probably will go with the Willwood stuff. It's just money.....
    I built the buck it's on to give me better access to everything since I'm stuck in a rental house for the next year or so.
    The very next thing I'm going to do is cut down the Crown Vic body mounts I posted about in another thread and mount the frame to the body so I can get better measurements for wheels & tires.
    Shall see. Do you know a better way to post pictures from MyDrive so it doesn't show the links?

    Karl

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J5dgifUmcZ71GjamS7tYyW2MuJEzUiGm/view?usp=sharing
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J8TaxtD_geo6QEVdJ8SNNbbMT2QzNqik/view?usp=sharing
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JBJYATR2HkToNcmTybMJLNh06rigc2o4/view?usp=sharing
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JFSjwwTpf1liUgbOufR_JeQeVMogsd9L/view?usp=sharing
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JPFOKB7CGHUdWVZnge8c73IYAAC8VvJS/view?usp=sharing
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JI_qftf4WvjRvHvGfpdCasniTssHFaOS/view?usp=sharing
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JGkO_HUI_l3E7sSXVxB-fXKOi9NdtdJi/view?usp=sharing
     
  9. grebaba

    grebaba In Fourth Gear

    Messages:
    362
    Ok
    Now I can see what you are doing and to be honest with you I would not worry about wheels and tires untill I had the body mounted.
    You can try to measure and figure it out and still have a good chance of buying tires and wheels that arn't right for the combo when you get everything mounted up. Don't ask my how I know that.
    As far as the brakes I would go with the Wilwood, I use them on all my builds and like them.
    What powerplant are you planing on useing,4.6?
    Never used my drive as I stay as far away from google as I can.
    Greg
     
  10. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Glad to hear you like the Wilwood set up. Not sure I'm ready to drop, what appears to be, about 4 or 5 k just on the brakes. I'll have to think about that part.
    As I mentioned, the next thing on my to-do list is mount the frame up to the body. After that, I have to figure out the wheel and tire package. Without it there's no way to do the math to figure out the spacers needed for the air ride.
    Don't know what you know about air ride systems. This is my first.
    From what I've put together, and it makes sense to me at this point, is to figure out the "normal" ride height and the two extremes Up/Dwn.
    Once I know that, I can figure out how big of a spacer I need between the airbags and the frame.

    Once I've got those spacers and air bag mounting plates welded in place, I'm sending the entire frame & suspension out for powder coating. Of course, that is if the price of it hasn't tripled since COVID.

    But ya, setting up the air ride is what's pushing me to get the wheels/tires now.

    Karl
     
  11. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Greg,

    Guess I did it again. Didn't answer your other question.
    I've got a crate 460 out of a '60's era Lincoln mated to a newly rebuilt C6 trailing out to a Currie 3rd member currently sporting 3.55 gears w/locker.
    The engine was still on it's original break-in oil when I bought the car.
    Hell, the oil in the rear end wasn't even dirty when I pulled it.

    I didn't put this combo together. I purchased the car from an older gentlemen that had just finished putting it together.
    Unfortunately, he didn't have the best attention to detail.
    It got to the point, very shortly after I purchased it, where I said that's it and pulled it all apart before it fell apart.
    He did things such as use roofing shingles to line the gas tank straps, rocks toward the straps if that makes any difference.........
    But when I pulled the distributor out and the twist tie that held the label on it during shipping was still there, I said that's it and pulled the entire thing apart.
    I tell you all of this simply to explain while I have all the paperwork for all of these things I don't have some of the details I would really like to tell you if I knew them.

    Some of the things I would love to do with this car is to put ARF heads on the engine, Change the rear gears to something closer to 3.0 so I'm not running 4k RPM at 65 MPH, do the Wilwood brakes, and stuff like that.
    Problem is, they all cost about the same, 4 - 5 k each. Kinda adds up.

    Karl
     
  12. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    13,030
    Location:
    Seguin, TX
    Instead of regearing the diff, why not sell the C6 and use that seed money to buy a freshly built (and, of course, updated) E4OD with stand-alone controller? Instead of dropping 4-5K, I think you could cut the cost by at least a third (after the C6 sale).

    Doing this, you would be in a better position to run 20-31" diameter tires/wheels, whilst maximizing the fuel efficiency.
     
  13. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Hmmmm..... I had not thought of this. Will an E4OD bolt up to a 460?
    What does a freshly rebuilt C6 go for used?
    What's an E4OD cost?
    Suggestions on where to get one from?
    Are there vehicles in "Auto Recycling" yards I can pull one from or are these aftermarket only?

    Thanks for sending me down another money/rabbit hole. LOL

    Karl
     
  14. grebaba

    grebaba In Fourth Gear

    Messages:
    362
    Never did a air bag set up but I have worked on factory setup's when I was a mechanic working for different dralerships.
    To bad about the build quality of the engine but you would be surprised at some of the stuff I have seen people do to their car's that we had to correct in the shop.
    Handy Andy had a good suggestion on the trans and I looked at the E4OD when I did my 71 but decided to go with the 6R80 instead.
    The adaptor was $1250.00, Used trans was [43000 miles] 595.00 shipped to me ,converter was $1250.00.
    the controller was again $1250.00.
    Seems to be a propular number with the manufactures.
    I chose the 6R80 because they are good to 1200 HP stock and are a bit smaller then the E4OD and I didn't have to cut the tunnel to get it to fit.
    All so running a Roush-Yates detroit locker .
    Greg
     
  15. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    13,030
    Location:
    Seguin, TX
    Well, hopefully it won't be as deep.

    Yes, you can pull E4ODs off of trucks with the 460. You can also talk to rebuilders, bigger ones might have a rebuild able core with the big block bellhousing pattern.
    You can also ask the rebuilders how much they charge retail on a V6. I'm guessing over a grand, but not over two grand. And, someone else might've had one pro rebuilt, and can answer your question better.
    Now remember, the E4OD is an electronic trans, so it'll need a standalone controller to work with your carbureted engine.
     
  16. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Sounds interesting. Looks like I've got some digging to do.
    First things first. Rolling chassis. Then I'll worry about getting it self-motivated.

    Oh, Handy. No carb for me. I've already got the entire Holley Sniper EFI setup with their distributer and full ignition. Went with the newer style that looks like an old school double-pumper.
    Good stuff.
     
  17. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    13,030
    Location:
    Seguin, TX
    Hell, if you'd done a factory EFI setup, the E4OD would be plug n play.
     
  18. Krazzyk

    Krazzyk In Third Gear SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    171
    Location:
    Cedar Park, Texas
    My grandmother had a cool saying.....

    "If ifs were 5ths, we all would be F'd up!"

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think the Sniper setup is far better than factory stuff. So I'm okay with it.
     
  19. handy_andy_cv64

    handy_andy_cv64 In Maximum Overdrive SILVER MEMBER

    Messages:
    13,030
    Location:
    Seguin, TX
    Ehhh, "...six of one, half a dozen of the other...."
     
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