Hello together, i've a problem with my water temperatur gauge / water temperatur sender. I have to install a new sender, because the gauge doesn't shows any temperature. So i bought three different senders from Rock-Auto, because i did not find any description for the resitance of the senders: 1. Standard TS58 2. Standard TS58T 3. Intermotor TS24 When i install the senders, the temperature gauge shows after 5 mins. high temp without running the engine. I discovered, that all senders warms up by it self. So i thought i have a defect at the gauge or the instrument voltage regulator. The gas gauge works well so that i think the voltage regulator is ok. So i tested the gauge with a variable ohm tester. Here are the results: 1. 150 ohm = 8.3 V = gauge = !---|---------|-- (low temp.) 2. 100 ohm = 7.8 V = gauge = -!--|---------|-- 3.. 56 ohm = 6.8 V = gauge = ----|-!-------|-- 4.. 47 ohm = 6.4 V = gauge = ----|--!------|-- 5.. 33 ohm = 5.5 V = gauge = ----|------!--|-- 6.. 22 ohm = 4.4 V = gauge = ----|---------|-! (hight temp.) 7.. 10 ohm = 2.7 V = gauge = ----|---------|-- ! (highest temp.) That looks not so bad so i think the gauge is allright. In the description of the gauge calibration testprocedure of the Ford-Manual for the Ranchero it is discribed as i did. So i have two problems: 1. Why does the sender heat up by it self? 2. Which sender is the right one? Thanks for your help ....!
The coolant temp sender gets its temp from the water as it passes through the intakes water passages. If the car is cold and isn't running you shouldn't get diddly on the gauge unless you have a short. You can test it by grounding one (not sure which) of the wires which will make the gauge go to max.
Hy, thanks a lot for the quick reply!!! I've only connectet the senders to the plus cable and grounded the sender. The sender will warm up by it self... Do you mean grounding the cables in the instrument board at the gauge? Which effect will then happen? I dont understand why the gauge works well with the tester...!
To test the gauge, (gas or temp) disconnect the lead at the sender and connect the lead to known ground. Turn the key to the on position and the gauge should go all the way to the maximum of its range. If you are testing the sender, it will give you different resistance values at different temperatures. I do not know what those values are.
Hi, Pandinus ... there is no heating element in the sensor [commonly, a thermistor]. So, needle movement just from turning the key to Run is wrong behavior. Seems it must be the gauge movement itself, or perhaps the IVR is behaving wrongly. ** When the other poster spoke about 'grounding a wire' what he meant was to remove the wire [connector] from the sensor, and touch the wire to a ground, i.e., simulate the sender going to zero ohms. Should result in a full scale Hot indication. The key must be in Run position. Which sender is correct? Try them all to see which looks best. On my car, I have mechanical gauges [Bourdon type pressure gauge] for heat and oil pressure, not trusing the standard parts. You could immerse the sensor in hot water, monitoring temp with a cooking thermometer, to develop a chart of resistance vs temp -- easier than changing them in the car. ** I think you told us you can see this? If not, do the test: with a cold motor, turn the key to Run and leave it that way for 5 minutes, observe any needle movement. If it rises with no heat from the motor, then I'd suspect the IVR, or the gauge itself.
I did not install the senders in the engine. I would test it with hot water and a cooking thermometer as you described. But all three senders have warmed himself then turn the key to run position. The senders get hot without heating with water. The resistances are 10 ohm is max temp, 80 ohm is low temp. With the ohm tester i get these results and the gauge shows the correct temp as you can see in the chart in my posting. Only with connected senders it will not work, because the senders get warm itself...
OK ... only obvious source of current to heat the sender is the IVR unit. I suppose there could be a bare wires somewhere in that circuit, but I think that's less likely.** Does your ohmmeter have current function? It would be interesting to know how much current between the sensor wire and ground. Or just replace sensor with a known-value resistor and measure voltage across it. ** if the IVR's 'buzzer' points were to fail closed, then the voltage through the sensors would be much higher. To be clear, with the wire connected and the ignition in Off state ... is there heating of the sensor in that condition? If that is 'yes' then you almost surely have crossed wires somewhere in your harness.
His problem has to be some sort of ground issue since the standard test for the sender unit is to ground it with the ignition on.
The sender is a resistor, and will heat up if given enough current. I suspect an issue with the cluster voltage regulator, or a situation where someone has wired around it, as the source of your problem as long as you are using the original connections to the sender.
Okay gents Just so happens I have had a Standard TS58 temp sending unit sittin on the table by my puter for a couple of years now, I took said sending unit and ran 12v + to the top screw terminal and grounded the body and yes the sending unit has enough resistance in it to noticeably heat up the sensor after a min or two. Pan take your VOM and check and see how much voltage you are getting to the wire going the sending unit it should be no more than 6 or 7 volts, From your chart I think you are feeding 12 volts instead of 6 volts to the gauge For some reason when Ford switched over to 12 volts they decided to keep the gauges 6 volts and use a voltage reducer. Either one of the 58s should work for you not sure about the 24 Product Details TS58T STANDARD T-SERIES TEMPERATURE SENDER -- Male connector, 1 terminal, closed at 100 degrees Fahrenheit 176 ohms with 7 percent tol, open at 220 degrees Fahrenheit 24.1 ohms with 15 percent tol, male terminal, stud terminal type; With gauge; A high quality, direct fit OE replacement temperature sender. Product Details TS58 TEMPERATURE SENDER, WITH GAUGE -- Male connector, 1 terminal, closed at 100 degrees Fahrenheit 176 Ohms with 7 percent tol, open at 220 degrees Fahrenheit 24.1 Ohms with 15 percent tol, male terminal, stud terminal type; A high quality, direct fit OE replacement temperature sender; With 3-year or 36,000-mile Standard limited warranty.
A lot of information for me - thanks a lot to you all!!!! I have the Ford manual from Forel. In this manual the test procedure is described with 10 ohms are high temp and 73 ohms are low temp. This is the way i have tested with the variable ohm resistor. The resistor works well - i've testet it bevore with an ohm-meter. The results with the voltage and the ohm resistances i have described in the chart (see above). With 150 ohms i get 8.3 V and the temp-gauge is low. With 10 ohms i get 2.7 V and the temp-gauge is high. So it seems the the gauge works well but it can be the IVR has a problem if the max voltage should be 6-7 V. I have testet different senders. The TS58T and TS58 with the resistances as Chero described. I have testet the TS24 with 170 ohms = 85 degrees fahrenheit and with 14 ohms = 210 degrees fahrenheit. Without a resistance i will become 9.6 V. So i think the TS24 is the right sender if the resistances in the manual describtion from Forel is correct. If ignition is OFF there is no current at the cable and the sender will not warm up. If the ignition is ON the sender will warm up (each sender - i've tested four different senders) If the voltage should be 6 - 7 V i think i will change the IVR because the max voltage is 9.6 - seems to much Has anyone an idea where i can order an IVR? Thanks a lot for your help!!!!!!
Voltage regulators are reasonably cheap and widely available. Shipping overseas will be the biggest chunk of the price. Buy 2 and keep a spare.
Thanks for informations - will buy the IVR and try - will take a while - shipping to Germany is toilsome. Rock is very quick - shipping is cheap but has no IVR DearbornClassics - bad experience (waiting six weeks for feedback to my order) but shipping is cheap Dennis Carpenter - don't know him but shipping is horrible expensive (50% of order value, min. 50$) I 'll let you know if I have installed the IVR....
Hey together, i've build in a new IVR - it works!!! It took a while until the IVR was sent to germany....! The temp sender will not heat up by itself and the gauge shows me a temperature!!! Thanks a lot to you all for your helpfull tips! I have one more question to you The temp gauge is about in the middle of the scale with a water temp of 230°F. 230°F seems a little high. I checked the temperature of the motor with an infrared thermometer right behind the theromstat and at the boiler. They both have the same temperature. I drove today (it's quit hot outside 95°F) and the car becomes 230°F. Is that to high? What is the maximum temp the water should become?
For a hot day, 230* F is not outside of specification; however, what you want to keep your eyes on are two things: wide needle swings (low coolant) and normal to hot needle swings (failing thermostat). Normal running should have a steady needle, no matter the outside temperature, in the gauge's center.
Thanks for the infos! I'm happy that 230F is not to high. As i changed the IVR i saw that the previous owner fixed the damaged IVR by bridging the contacts. So the gauge all the time runs with 12 volts instead of 6 volts. I think the gauge will not work as it should. In normal case the temperature is at about 185F - 195F and the gauge needle is just over the second marker (a little over cold) and its stable. With 230F the needle is in the middle of the scale. I think the thermostat works well. When the car is running with about 190F i have the same temp before and after the thermostat.
