Time to get out??

[Ranchero.us]

Dont post too much here in this section but everyday I hear on the Local and National news 6-8-10 more dead American soldiers every day. This hits really close to home as many of you know I lost a close personal friend over there. He wrote home right before he died and said the MAJORITY of people over here Hate us. He did not believe they were making a Big difference and that is coming from a Guy who gave his life for our Country and Freedom. Now his son will never know him as he was an infant when he died. The casualties just seem to be piling up day after day, widows, kids without both parents etc. When is this going to stop? How many more lives lost before we realize we cant win?? You cant fight an enemy you cant see. Most attacks are long range RPG attacks, roadside bombs and suicide bombers. I get the Fight the War there so you dont have to fight it here theory but I just cant buy it anymore.

[BlueOvals]

I hear your pain, as you may know, a friend of mine's bro jsut lost his leg over there, in an accident. Small compared to many's losses. I see that the Senate rejected both the Congress's pull out bill and the benchmarks bill; I thought the latter would get the 60 votes needed. Anyway, it seems we are not making progress and if the Iraqi govt. does not get it together soon, even more support for the war will be lost. If there really were no dire consequences for leaving the country in chaos, I'd agree with you, we should get out as soon as practicable. Tough call. Most of the Dem loons, like Pelosi and Ried, have no solution at all except surrender and get out. I'm waiting most for a new stategy, even draconian, by us rather than the current Marquis of Queensbury rules of engagement we currently have. Our troops come first, it makes no sense to hamstring them the way we do and not let them do the job, messy as that might be, as long as they are safer. This door to door and street patrol stuff is not working fast enough, and only exposes them to needless danger. The street fighting has always in all wars been the meat grinder of battle. Time to chorden off the Sunni triangle, leaflet it, all out in 72 hours, then carpet and cluster bomb it. Then go in and mop up, ala WWI. That's all.

[BlueOvals]

P.S. I meant WWII rather than WWI.

[burninbush]

When is this going to stop? How many more lives lost before we realize we cant win?? You cant fight an enemy you cant see. Most attacks are long range RPG attacks, roadside bombs and suicide bombers. I get the Fight the War there so you dont have to fight it here theory but I just cant buy it anymore. >RanchUS

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Ah, someone else has seen the light. Now you can be called an unAmerican traitor like me.

Not only do a large majority [70%+] of Iraqis want us out, a majority replied on a poll recently that Americans are legitimate targets.

Still waiting for those flowers Cheney promised.

The 'follow us home' line is BS nonsense -- if they were going to do that they'd be here already. Labeling the Iraqi insurgents 'al Qaeda' is just a way to keep the PR war going here in the US of A.

[ForistellFord]

BB, Ranchero.us has had this opinion for a long time, and has stated so in the past. The biggest difference between you two is that I highly doubt he sympathizes with the terrorists and America haters like you do. The boy just wants the war to end; he's had a personal loss so that is serving to make his anger more amplified. He's got a right to his opinion and I think we all respect that. Hell, who DOESN'T want the war to be over?

No one's going to slam anyone just because the are opposed to the war. You, Mr. bb, have taken it to the far left extreme. You don't simply oppose the war, you hate Bush, everyone in his administration, all of us who you call "dumb rednecks", you hate your country, and you hate anyone who differs from your viewpoint...

That's why everyone thinks you're a traitor. Well, that, and you said you were.

[75 Squire]

BlueOvals I hear you man. I dont understandd the reasoning behind getting our hands tied behind our back. Its way past time we started carpet bombing these "insurgent" strong holds. We need to pull a couple more Fallujah's and then we can truely begine to rebuild the country, just as we did in Germany and Japan.

[351driver]

"Now you can be called an unAmerican traitor like me.">BB

Well, I haven't called you that, although I would be justified in doing so. When you accused our soldiers of being mercinaries, my opinion of you changed. I think you said that you served in Viet Nam. If that's the case, you should know as well as anyone that our soldiers deserve better treatment than they got from the war protestors of those days. Now, you are guilty of the same thing.

It's fine to have a different opinion about the war, and it's even fine with me that you hate Bush. I don't dislike anyone for stating an opinion different than my own, and there is certainly nothing wrong with wanting to bring our troops home. I just have no respect for anyone who hates Bush so bad that he would start to accuse the the brave men and women of our armed forces of war crimes. It's the most traitorous, cowardly thing you could do in my opinion.

[nsr]

RancheroUS- I hear you Billy. I'm tried of our people getting killed too. I've got a good friend in Tikrit right now and another who is shipping out soon. My bro-in-law transfered from an MP unit (NG) to a infantry unit (he didn't like the way the MP unit was operating) and now that MP unit is about to be called up. We're all tried of it. It's easy for me and others to say, "lets keep going" because we're not there.
I hear conflicting stories all the time. Some soldiers say we are making a difference, some, in the case of your friend, say we're not. The thing I look at is the military end. I don't see a large group going "awol" or a large # of soldiers against the war as in Vietnam. I think the soldiers believe in what they're doing and as long as they believe that and want to finish the job.....well, I can only back them up.
When the boots on the ground start to say the war is lost....then I will listen. Until then, when I hear a politician tell me about how many have died for an unjust cause (Iraq) but won't say a word about how many babies have been killed each year in this country because they don't/won't have a spine and take a stand against that "unjust" cause, I will not hear a word they have to say. I don't trust ANY politician who will say anything to get a vote. I trust the men and women of our armed services.

[nsr]

Originally posted by Denny

When you accused our soldiers of being mercinaries, my opinion of you changed.
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That's ok Denny......These are the same kind of people who beg for the "mercinaries" to come and help when a natural disaster happens, Hurricane Katrina, earthquakes, etc.

[ForistellFord]

Ha 2 seater, that's what I'M talking about!

[BlueOvals]

Yeah, 2 seater, the old addage: "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer" come into play; so we can't just bug out and expect it to be OK. I also recall, talking to a Viet Nam vet, that when we went on RR for a few days in Siagon, it chapped his butt to no end to see all the young Vietnamese guys riding around town on Vespas, while he and his buddies had to hit the jungle on patrol in the next few days, for the umpty-umth time. Time for the Iraqis to a least get a man on base in this war, I agree 100%!!!

[BlueOvals]

P.S. I meant when "he" went on RR; I was not there, as that may have left the impression.

[burninbush]

i'd have no problem with a total pullout if they were just going to kill each other after we GTFO, but there is a large faction over there that has been indoctrinated, educated and nurtured to hate America. >2seat

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But how will our staying in Iraq reduce or improve that situation? Even Rumsfeld thought that we were creating more terrorists than we were killing.

Our military and political objectives in Iraq were accomplished long ago -- it's way past time for us to be out of there.

[ForistellFord]

Originally posted by burninbush:
Our military and political objectives in Iraq were accomplished long ago -- it's way past time for us to be out of there. I second that, but not with the anti-American spin bb puts on everything. It's nice to see that bb now agrees that we indeed did win militarily. The civil infighting has been very rough but obviously our presence there is a more stabilizing force than if we left and allowed Iran to take it over. Iraq itself needs to sack up and choke the insurgency so we can indeed get out.