Hey Don - is that a roller or a flat lifter cam? Reason for asking is the new headers WILL get ruined (the finish cracks and blisters) with the break in of a flat lifter style cam. They need to be heat cycled before they're fully cured. Yeah, I know, you already knew that, but shame on me if I didn't mention it. Tell Joe I saw Russ Crump - see if he remembers him.
Phil it be a hydraulic roller. It's all good to bring it up. Got held up a little bit adjusting rockers as one side has a extra thread showing when adjusted, puzzling. No hitting or rubbing so kept going , just weird. Thinking about it I question if pads are at same height that rocker shafts are bolted down to head to head. Something you normally wouldn't check, just looking for symmetry. All part of building an engine. Then I had purchased after market valve covers for this engine. Don't you know the baffles hit the rocker shafts. Stacked gaskets and checked no hit but couldn't guarantee they wouldn't when bolted down. Thought ah 428 factory covers are out in shop with the other engine pieces looked baffles are thinner and higher in cover cleaned and checked no hit without gasket so they are what is being used. Just the type of issues when trying to get all done and on the dyno. I'll try to remember to ask him though sounds like a familiar name .
I've seen that before, camshaft not quite "centered" in the block casting. Fairly common in SBC's, you can see the offset from either end where the casting surrounds the cam bearing. Whole lot harder to see only a few thou one way or the other. The valve covers I usually have to mill a bit off the "stands" for the baffles, then re-tap them. Pain in the butt, but gotta do whatcha gotta do, right? And Russ had an Olds-headed Top Dragster back in the early 90's - yellow with magenta stripes. Yup, I also thought it was ugly
Casting not quite centered is possibility. At least it didn't stop the build ! Maybe I'm just looking at stuff differently ? Was working a job at shop I manage, running manual lathe with a .0004" tolerance. Had me feeling "mic'd" out. This week felt different at start switched to a job with a +.002"/-.003" tolerance, a lot easier. Valve cover hit IF memory is correct when interviewed at Joe's many years ago. They had just fired up a 302 build in a Torino had a "ticking" in top end had them puzzled. I said you have over a .480 lift cam, rockers hitting baffle. Talk about getting a strange look. SO they pulled the valve cover and the marks were on the baffle. Hmmm how did I know that issue? Yep gotta do what ya gotta do when it comes to this stuff. Anyone can say it's wrong, being able to solve the issue is the trick. I remember talking to a guy at world of wheels in Boston or Bahston( as they say it) in early 90's about his intake on rail. I was looking at it and commenting what wasn't "conventional" when he came up and let me know that intake was what made the power compared to others. It was a sheetmetal intake with "staggered runners" not as inline as we all tried to keep them.
Well Saturday was interesting, made it to the shop for Dyno testing. We were all prepped for fire up when "Murphy" decided to play games, ignition module wouldn't send tach signal to Sniper unit, no rpm signal and injection won't work. So after spending some time figuring it out and swapping the throttle body with a new unit and finding it wouldn't save the changes for fire up we swapped back to the MSD and I threw the "U" carb on it and we did get to run her in a little bit. Pulled plugs and checked them all good while they were out checked leak down, all under 8% so good there as it wasn't run long enough to totally seat rings . Had checked the oil level and saw a bunch of foam on stick. Running a 7 quart pan and I had put 6 in it for testing so we added a quart to see if that might change it, after a quick run still had lots of foam in oil. Ended up being late in day and didn't want to disturb neighbors with dyno noise at that point so shut down for the night. At least I heard and saw her run can't wait to see the numbers! Joe is very concerned about the foam in the oil, me not as much. I figure they have run that way for years. Sent him some info from the FE forum where there are videos of the oil pan foaming the pan. They state they haven't seen bearing issues from it and yes it is an undesirable thing happening. He wants to check the aeration at rockers to see if it is happening there. The problem with aeration in the oil is air doesn't lube but will show as pressure on the gauge, gives a false sense of security. Did check the Melling HV pump before install on the pressure relief valve as they had sent a bunch out with a hole in that plug, wasn't supposed to be a hole there. This one was good checked at install time. Running Mobil 1 synthetic oil at present. Maybe change oil brand/styles and see if that changes anything. Might have to check a stock volume pump against a HV pump to see if any change. I had taken a lot of stuff for a dyno day. Thought I was prepared !! Took 2 carbs, jet kit , spare accelerator pumps, different power valves, bowl gaskets, rebuild kit ( to cover all gaskets) new set of wires along with hoses and clamps. I try to prep for worst, kinda like going to the track take everything just in case. Now to wait for next weekend to play again. He should be running this week and sending me info.
Personally never had any luck with synthetic oil for break in - have seen the same foaming of the oil, and I believe it might be the additive package. Switched to Driven Break-in oil and much better results, without the foaming. And this is coming from the guy who runs Mobil 1 in almost everything, I think it's the best stuff out there. I'd be interested in what you guys find. Only way I could see a HV pump as a cause would be with tight clearances - maybe some heat in the oil, but foaming?
Phil - Joe remembered Russ as soon as I said his name. Led to a funny story about the rail coming home and finding that it didn't fit in garage , so he cut the back out of garage. Joe's comment was that was priceless! I had bought a Lucas oil regular to run. Joe likes the Mobil 1. Myself I really like Royal Purple just not the price. Tolerances are not tight in any of my builds, prefer loose and run the HV pump so that I know oil is in place. Volume of oil rather than big pressure. I will take a 10 psi at hot idle with no worries as long as when I hit the throttle the pressure comes up with the RPM's. Learned long ago on my first engine build about pressure pumping the pan dry would nose over at 80 mph put an extra quart in 130 mph as long as you wanted, 2bbl carb and 2.79 rear gears and still got 20 mpg. The question of HV vs stock is just a theory question for me. Basically the FE has always had a "oil" issue and part of reason to keep the RPM down for longevity in racing apps, yes a lot still live anyway. Was it always a undiagnosed "foaming issue" ? Does the gerotor pump blow the pressure out in the pan when pressure spring relieves the oil back into pan causing the aeration? This would be due to the gerotor pumping more efficient compared to a regular geared pump. If that would be the case then a stock pump would not make the aeration happen as much ? Other issues ? Just thoughts and questions on the issue at hand. Answers may or may not be found.
The pump does not dump back into the pan - it recirculates back into the pump itself. Found that out when Melling decided to let some SBF HV pumps out without the relief machined deep enough. They told me I could either send them back, or re machine them myself. Jerks. Did you drill the supply hole from the pump mounting surface to the filter housing surface? I normally open them up to 1/2" opening. Hell, I even do that with a stock rebuild. The factory hole leaves much to be desired, as does the intended mis-alignment of the main oiling holes in the block. And, yes, Russ is a bit different. It was good to see him.
Melling has been doing some weird stuff lately. On the Fe pumps they had a rash of pumps that went out with a hole in the end of the plug of relief valve and caused issues, checked mine and it was solid plug. Would have thought they would have just replaced them rather than saying machine yourself ! Oil supply holes opened and blended no sharp edges, bearing holes lined up with block passages. Yep all the normal stuff done. .070 re stricter in heads for oil supply, try to keep more for main bearings. Opened supply to #1 main as it is done smaller than rest of mains. Agreed the oil supply leaves a lot to be desired, supply from filter to passages being bigger (7/16" ?). Here's a interesting link with videos of froth in pan of an FE. https://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=10344.0
Hey, good read. I think I just spent a half hour reading everything and watching videos. Did you also restrict lifter galleries? Makes my head spin reading all the "nons" replies What are you using for a tray?
Glad you guys like that stuff. I learned stuff in it as well. No restrictions in the lifter galleys, running Hydraulic roller. I know should be a solid roller! Heads shave a .070" restrictor in the oil port. I tapped the port under rocker stand on each head and drilled a set screw ( 10-32 ?) for a easy change if need be. Didn't like idea of putting one in deck of block , have to R&R heads to change size. That's not my idea of a good weekend in these cars. No valley tray and no windage tray. Oh and the drip trays aren't being used either. Reading around that site most aren't running any windage tray. It's always a debate some swear by them and some don't. Joe wants to see the rocker oil flow told him to take one of the new covers I bought and cut the top off to help with oil control as the heads get a lot of oil. He thanked me for that as he was trying to figure out a way to dam the rails up to keep oil from running all over. I figure easy the one already started to rust on top surface and they would need modified to work with the rockers anyway.
If you've got any kind of a positive seal, I agree, no drip trays are needed. Do the lifters oil through the pushrods also, or are the cups not drilled? Stock rockers, or roller? It's easier to ask than go back and read through the whole build . I ask because with a bushed type of rocker, .070 works well, with a bearing type of rocker, it might be a bit much - but Joe will see to that, I'm willing to bet. And I do the same place with the restrictors.
Here ya go I understand not wanting to go all through the thread. Positive seals , only way to go. A lot of times with aftermarket rockers and bigger pushrods you can get interference at the drip trays, so saw no reason to run them. Only oil thru heads you would really run the pan dry oiling with pushrods and heads. Smith brothers ball and cup pushrods no oil holes. Harland rockers bushed, my choice based on bushings work long time needle bearings fail at the worst times. Actually the big guys are using bushings again due to the spring pressures they are running, figure they are running around 400 lbs or so on the seat. Sorry won't give out actual numbers it's the racer in me. LOL I already had the restictors in back when I installed on the 428. Made sure Joe was aware of that step. Ask away sometimes "spit balling" thru the stuff gets you to a solution. That's the way I looked at the pump stuff. The fix in the 428CJ's for oil was run 6 quarts in the 5 quart pan, Ford's TSB back in the day.
Looks like ya have all the bases covered - I also prefer bushed rockers, my T&D's are bushed as well . Not surprised at Ford's recommendation - you know they had to see a problem if they said that.
Well today Joe came to the conclusion that the pump is making max pressure at idle. Did some testing with a drill running pump and had instant froth at rocker arms. SO we will put a stock pressure pump in this weekend and check some other stuff to see what else could be going on. So after work today I checked 3 different parts stores for an oil pump knowing they would have to order one. Figured I could have one by Friday for a weekend install. All told me not until middle of next week. So looks like I may have to go thru an old one and clean it up check clearances and put it into play. One of the days of weekend will be spent with a dyno stand in my back changing this stuff out. Bright side is it will be easier than in the car ! T&D rockers are nice ! $$
Melling has been getting worse lately, it seems that since Dynagear went belly up, the QC at Melling went with it. When you're the only game in town, it's a captive audience. Maybe even with loose tolerances, the old pump will turn out better. If it does, might be interesting to get into the HV pump to see why it's screwed up. Should not be making "froth" just priming it . And yes on the T&D, both counts
Oil pump something I didn't even consider as a potential issue, no magic there. Haven't looked into one in years as they just worked. Go figure I always did get hit with the odd ball stuff ie diagnose a car and come up with this part is bad the argument against was always that part never goes bad. Though fix it and the problem was fixed. Joe told me he had one engine that wiped out 2 flat tappet cams due to a pump. 1st time just figured it wiped out 2nd time heard noise start reached in to shut down and saw no oil pressure at idle. Guess it just goes back to check everything leave no stone unturned or leave no bolt unturned.
Well, when it comes to researching what machining is supposed to be done, not as easy as it seems. Melling is not quite forthright with that info, and when they find out they screwed up, the claim is made "we thought we had accounted for all the mistakes". Boy, I wish there was another avenue for something other than small and big block Chevy.
Thinking last night - can you remove the filter and see if the oil coming directly from the pump is aerated? Wondering if the screen has a pinhole somewhere and is sucking in air, or the flange for the screen wasn't welded all the way around or not flat? Possibly go to the next point in the oil path (pressure sender?) and repeat. Has to be a point where it is or isn't showing aeration. Yeah, I know, finding it is another story.
