Bolts

Boys, hate to tell ya but Carl is dead nuts correct. 1970/ 1971 Base 429 CJ with hydraulic lifters got the Q-Jet. Esentially the same carb as on a 455 Pontiac including the divorced choke. 750 cfm. Auto trans version got the kick-down arm. SCJ got the square bore Holley. Ford didn't build their spreadbore metering rod smog carb untill the 1975 model year. A good tuner could make those Q-Jet's sing a pretty song. Semi-Rare ???? Ribald, son - - What else aren't they telling you about out in California ? Where's that Car Culture out West we were always told we lagged behind ? Maybe we had it better than we thought over here in hillbilly land. If I've had 30 of them, "Rare" starts to sound convoluted. Mustangs, Cougars, Torinos, Cyclones, heck - - They even turned up in big LTD's and Mercury Marquis. Get offa' Wickipedia and Google and look up old Ford magazines like Super Ford from back in the 60's and 70's if the library hasn't tossed them. Tell me what you find, somebody around here probably has one I can take a pic of for ya. Got any of these Autolite 4 barrels lying about ?

 

OK, I believe you but were they Rochesters or Carters? I really can't believe Ford would put a direct GM division product on a Ford.

 

Genuine Rochesters Max. That's why I know the list numbers on them match the ones used on Pontiacs. Rochester was making money, they didn't care who was buying as long as they sold more carbs. Early 50's was the last Carters I remember seeing Ford use. It wouldn't have hurt my feelings to see Ford use A nice Carter Thermo-Quad but Mopar had them locked into a deal, Carter wouldn't break that deal. Some things I just don't tell folks about =

 

Well, I know Carter's were a possibility on my '68 since they are listed as one of the factory carbs in the Fairlane/Ranchero/Montego/Cougar/Falcon Service Manual for the 6 cylinder engines (Carter Model YF) but there only is the Autolite and Holley for the 4v.

 

My bad Max. I keep forgetting about those carbs on six cylinder Fords. For some reason you just didn't see many sixes in this area. For a long time other than a Mustang, 289's and 302's weren't common sights either. Too many hills I guess.

 

And gas was cheap.

 

First of all, I never said they didn't exist, nor that it never happened. I was responding to the link (that you are contradicting) provided by Carl.
Also, Wankerpedia and Giiigle are the last places I would go for information.

I have seen a lot of Ford spreadbores, but never one with a Chevy trademarked name stamped on it. That doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that I have never seen it.

Don't forget that back at that time California was already starting to get hot and heavy about keeping performance US made cars out of CA. The Japanese were buying politicians wholesale in this state.

As I said, I will look into it and learn more.

 

California wasn't the issue with performance cars, insurance companies did that. California did however pave the way for cleaner air which started in 1968.

 

Ford used/sourced a lot of GM products. Saginaw power steering pumps and steering gears, A6 a/c compressors and other Frigidaire a/c components(POA valves) are just a few. Todd

BTW, I am using all of these ^^ on my Ranchero. They may have a Motorcraft tag or Ford replacement part # but were originally a GM designed part. I really don't like GM but IMO the Saginaw pump and gears are arguably some of the best steering parts ever made and the A6 is/was the best a/c compressor ever made as far as cooling/longevity/durability issues are concerned. The A6 was on everything from a Jaguar to farm equipment.

 

The 'cleaner air' farce forced the auto manufacturers to make 'CA only' vehicles in the early 70's. It really limited the variety of cars available.
By some miracle of chance, the smog regs created a situation where every Japanese car was already in compliance, but the US cars were not.
That knocked the door wide open for the Japanese, and by another coincidence, they were already ramped up with excess inventory already in place.
The crooks in Sacramento kept their part of the bargain, and the extra cash pushed the Democrats into power.

Sorry if you got the idea that I implied that you did. Hillbilly was accusing me of doing it, even though if I had I would have known that the GM carb was installed on some cars outside of CA in 70 and 71.
I talked to my machinist, Gary, he is 81 and I am sure he used a broken Model T connecting rod as a teething ring when a baby.
He backed up the article you linked. And that the only way I would have run across one in a car was if it was from out of state. In the early 70's if you brought a car in from out of state, you had to make it comply with CA regs, so not many made it here.

 

Ribald, your explanation of why the bad boys never made it to Cali. strikes a nerve even after all these years. I guess I do owe ya one on this topic, I got all up in heat over the idea you guys hadn't seen something that was so common over here that you would think everyone in the country had seen one. Kinda' dumbass on my part forgetting the C.A.R.B. Hilterismsn, now wasn't it ? Get the paddle and get it over, I earned it.

 

Cars weren't even causing the air problems we had in the first place.
It was the steel mills in LA, and the sawdust burners in northern CA.
The invention of particle board ended the sawdust burners, and the steel mills cleaned up and/or closed down, but the Stalinists in Sacramento still claim the automotive standards are what cleaned up the air.
Nowadays most people don't know any better, so they believe the line.

 

There was no farce. California led the way to cleaner air by creating stricter emissions requirements. This was followed up by the Clean Air Act of 1970 nationally. Both were supported by Americans by a vast majority. It eliminated lead from fuel which was a very toxic pollutant. Nor did it limit the variety of cars available. That assertion is ludicrous.

They were in compliance because they didn't emit the same garbage. They weren't even on the same playing field as US cars at that time. Japanese cars were slow, small and light. US manufacturers were making small, light cars as well like the Falcon or the Chevy II/Nova, they just weren't as small as the Japanese cars or cars like Volkswagons.

The only people that opened the door for the Japanese were in Detroit. Instead of building small, fuel efficient cars to compete with the imports, they concentrated on large, high margin vehicles that were boat anchors when the price of fuel went up and when the emissions requirements kicked in. It's not like the emissions requirements were a surprise, Detroit had 10 years to prepare for them.

 

Vehicle emissions were a major source of lead in the environment, there is no disputing this.

 

Well Max, I was here while it all went down.
I even spent a fair amount of time in Oregon, where the term 'smog' originated. The term meant 'smoke mixed with fog'. The air there was far worse than even LA in the sparkly populated areas. Go there now, with the sawdust burners gone, the air is great except in the winter when everyone is heating with wood.
Growing up in San Diego, I would go to the beach, and looking north you could see the plume of pollution from LA 100 miles away. The minor vehicle emission changes did not get rid of that, the number of cars increased faster than emissions went down. The steel mills shutting down did though.

Now you claim the Japanese cars had lower emissions, but the fact is that they didn't. The legislation was heavily biased toward smaller engines, but somehow the Japanese new in advance what the specific requirements would be.
While US automakers scrambled to produce 'California only' vehicles the Japanese had lots full of them. Keep in mind that the Japanese had to ship by boat across the Pacific.
It may be hard to believe that corrupt politicians would sell us out for a quick buck, but here in CA, it is not uncommon.

As to lead in the gas, I see no evidence that kids today are any smarter than those of us that grew up breathing the stuff. But then, we knew that sleeping by the exhaust of a running car or eating paint wasn't a good idea.

 

Smaller engines emit less. What cars were excluded from California after the emissions requirements went into effect? Just because you see no evidence doesn't mean evidence doesn't exist. Do yourself a favor and look up the environmental studies, they are there for all to see.

Besides, the only reason lead was introduced into gas was to keep the engines from knocking, the guy from GM who discovered that tetraethylead (TEL) would do this; Thomas Midgely had to be treated for lead poisoning after demonstrating TELs effectiveness to GM. He was the owner of over 100 patents.

 

I know why lead was in gas. I would like to see documentation of the guy you mentioned getting lead poisoning from exhaust fumes. At the time they couldn't find a single case, so the topic changed to preventing brain damage in kids.
If you look into expiring patents you will, maybe, get a better idea of how the situation evolved.

 

Mom's sister bought a new 76 Granada here, then decided to move to Santa Monica to help her daughter with a multiple birth. When she went to register that six cylinder Grenada she was given the choice of take the car back out of the state or pay $1100 to retrofit what it took to comply with Cali. rules. Just got told about that story, Dad said she bitched about getting ripped off for years.

 

$1100 was a lot of money back then. Rent on a 2 bedroom apartment was less than $400 a month in the good parts of town. I was paying $285 at the time.